Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:58 pm

Nick Grey wrote: Must be hotels south - those some big Opens in late 70s were played in Hammersmith - they are still there - some cheap places too.
You may be thinking of the Cunard Hotel alongside the Hammersmith flyover. That was affordable for chess events in the 1970s, but the National Bank of Dubai were paying. Cheap and London don't correlate these days.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:35 am

A big chunk of country between Telford and London :)

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:46 pm

I entered four teams under the e2e4 banner some time ago. When I came to pay the entry fee I found that I could not do so without an internet banking card reader which I did not have with me (I was away from home and in a hotel). I therefore paid the fees the following day when I got home. This was therefore one day after the deadline communicated by the 4ncl in its email for which I am totally resposnible.

On 9 October I received an email from Mike Truran saying that the board had decided to refuse our entry. He did offer the opportunity to appeal by 16 October. Personally I was not inclined to do so and told Mike privately on 10 October that I did not intend to do so and asked for my money back. However players did want to do so, so I confirmed formally to the board on 12 October that we wished to appeal.

However, we were amazed to hear from 4ncl that they would not consider an appeal. Here is what they said

My reference to “the Appeals Committee” in my earlier email was specifically to the particular ex gratia offer I made to you, and not to the Appeals Committee referred to in rule 14.2. The ex gratia offer I made to you allowed you an opportunity to appeal the Board’s decision, but in your reply you made it clear that you had no intention of taking up that offer and that you wanted the return of your entry fee payment.

Essentially, the board took my private comment to Mike that I had no intention to appeal as

a) speaking for all e2e4 players
b) being a wish to irrevocably waive any appeal rights

which clearly was not the case. Comments from the Erroneous Professor and others that we somehow 'pulled our teams out' are completely wide of the mark.

I've written to the board twice, asking them to reconsider, and appealed directly to the team / player reps on the board for help and support. The reps have not even had the courtesy to respond. Mike has replied, refusing to reconsider. I've also suggested that the first thing a prospective Appeal Committee could consider is whether the right of appeal even existsl, but again Mike said no to this.

I feel desperately sorry for all the players affected by this, and am at a loss to know what else can be done to put this right.

David Pardoe
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by David Pardoe » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:30 pm

Unless there is some practical issue, Like Mike has subsequently offered your teams places to other teams, it would seem unfortunate..
Is there timing issues, or have other teams been similarly declined?
I`d love to offer your teams extra slots in the 4NCL North.... I`m sure they could be fitted in...but hotels could be an issue..
Cant see any other practical issues, except it opens the door to other late comers, perhaps
It might have been better to have rung Mike directly to discuss matters..at the outset...
Meanwhile, I`m sure that many teams would love to hear from any players looking for a team to play for....

I see in another thread someone mentioned that you pulled out of organising the Atkins Congress, but didn't communicate that to the organisers, I believe...so that event has also gone west....
We all need to try to communicate these matters...... yes, it plagues the busiest of us..
I was listening to the Poynton Brass band last night..
The conductor was saying how they are very busy just now, and face a week of intensive rehearsals, ready for a big national concert in Rochdale next Sunday. The schedule sounded absolutely manic, and they had to fit in there day jobs..
A great band, and you can go and watch rehearsals on Thursday evening at Poynton Community Centre...Free...!

Good luck with e2e4....
BRING BACK THE BCF

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:49 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Unless there is some practical issue, Like Mike has subsequently offered your teams places to other teams, it would seem unfortunate..
The team finishing fifth in the division 1 demotion pool remains in division 1. That doesn't change anything as far as hotels are concerned, but does mean that they need a female player for each weekend.

The teams finishing fifth and sixth in division 2 demotion pool not only have to change hotels and travel arrangements from Telford to Birmingham Airport, but also need to recruit two more players for the first weekend, one of whom may need to be female or a junior.

David Pardoe wrote: Is there timing issues, or have other teams been similarly declined?
You can look back up this thread to see the timings. At the entry deadline of 30th September there were two squads covering several teams flagged by the website as not having paid. At least a week seemed to pass before one of the squads (Barnet Knights) was shown as entered and then a few more days before the e2e4 teams were removed.

I'd agree that deadlines could be flexible for entry to the "Swiss" divisions, namely div 3N and div 4. For 1,2 and to a lesser extent 3, ignoring the deadlines inconveniences squads who would find themselves in a different division and a different venue from the one they anticipated.

Not all squads will be managed the same way, but if all the players are around the same strength, the manager might send out an email asking who is available or otherwise for the five weekends. On the basis of that, the team for the first weekend is selected. For the first match in November, I was told the team back in September. Had four teams dropped out, rather than two, or we had got better results in the final weekend, it's a team that could have been shuffled from Telford back to Birmingham.

David Pardoe
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by David Pardoe » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:30 pm

Fair points Roger.. I guess maybe Sean shot his fox by not accepting Mikes initial offer....
If he wants to keep his e2-e4 teams together, Maybe entering two teams (at least) in 4NCL North, might be worth a shout.. its going to be quite a decent standard this year, I think...
I`m a little surprised that some alarm bells weren't sounded earlier in the e2- e4 camp.. and maybe from the 4NCL side...
For e2 e4 to have at least 2 teams in the top leagues, given there squad size and strength, would seem desirable, and good for the competition as a whole. It does seem that Sean has fallen down on a technicality in the first instance...
Communications all round seem to be a tad amiss...
BRING BACK THE BCF

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:48 am

This page says:

http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1516_teams.htm

"Lists @ 18 October 2015".

That is 16 each in divisions 1, 2, 3s, and 3n, and 20 in division 4.

Is that things settled for this season, and do the (former?) e2e4 players know where they stand?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:57 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: Is that things settled for this season, and do the (former?) e2e4 players know where they stand?
I rather think that's it and according to the entry guidelines squad details should already have been submitted. I'm presuming former e2e4 players will have to sit the season out, or more likely be recruited by existing teams either as squad additions or wild cards.

Mick Norris
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:24 pm

We have added 1 to the Manticores, but we aren't geographically well placed for most of the players
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:41 pm

Mick Norris wrote:We have added 1 to the Manticores, but we aren't geographically well placed for most of the players
There are no geographical restrictions on 4NCL teams, so it's only a question of whether Birmingham and Telford are more convenient for former e2e4 players than the Div3N ones. Is it a reasonable observation that most e2e4 players had been East and West Midlands based?

Mick Norris
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:46 pm

Yes and yes
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Neil Graham
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Neil Graham » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:07 pm

Mike Truran wrote:We might consider a late entry application (in Division 4 only) if any of the former e2e4 players wanted to band together under another name.
In response to other postings, I can advise that Ashfield-Breadsall made a late entry application and entered a second team in Division Four; we have taken on around half a dozen e2-e4 players.

I did have access to some e-mail lists for e2-e4 players and indeed Leicestershire organisers also had a list with other names on. We did e-mail everyone we could on these lists either advising them I was considering a Division Four team or advising players who wouldn't be interested in Division Four that e2-e4 were not playing.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Main 4NCL: 2015/2016 Entry Guidelines

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:48 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: That is 16 each in divisions 1, 2, 3s, and 3n, and 20 in division 4.
I'm presuming Rhyfelwyr Essyllwg declined to be restored to the second division with the notice given. The MK Phoenix team replace them.

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