4NCL Division Four (South)

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7267
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue May 10, 2016 1:29 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:I've just looked at extending the 4NCL pool algorithm: it turns out that you can also do a pool system for 18 teams (three groups of six) and for 20 teams (five groups of four), and it works.
So over 11 rounds, you would have:

1) Three groups of six play 5 rounds APA, and then top and bottom three from each group go into two groups (promotion and non-promotion, as there is nowhere to be relegated to) of 9 teams, with each team having six more games to play against the 6 teams from the other groups.

2) Five groups of four play 3 rounds APA, and then top and bottom two from each group go into two groups of 10 teams, with each team having eight more games to play against the 8 teams from the other groups.

The first one could work, but having 3 preliminary rounds to decide the promotion group doesn't sound great. What does the other group have to play for over the next 8 rounds?

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue May 10, 2016 1:43 pm

Alex Holowczak has just pointed out on Facebook that the 18-team case results in 9-team groups, and thus you would need triangular matches.

Alex McFarlane
Posts: 1414
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:52 pm

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Alex McFarlane » Tue May 10, 2016 2:30 pm

2) Five groups of four play 3 rounds APA, and then top and bottom two from each group go into two groups of 10 teams, with each team having eight more games to play against the 8 teams from the other groups.

Wouldn't this be better as two groups of 10 playing 9 games then the top 2 from each group forming a 4 for promotion (2 games). Continuing would give 5 groups of 4.

Paul Dargan
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Paul Dargan » Wed May 11, 2016 8:25 pm

Alex - your alternative is highly dependent upon having the initial groups well-balanced/seeding. If there is any chance that the 3rd best team in pool A should be one of those going-up then it wouldn;t work. The final position is too heavily influenced by scores against weaker/stronger teams rather than peers.

If you go back to Jack's original requirements they stated that you had to play against the top 1/2 of teams - but a later variation implied the top 1/a of the total division size was acceptable ... the 5 groups of 4 for the second half doesn;t meet either condition (though of course that condition could be amended)

Alex Bullen
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Alex Bullen » Thu May 19, 2016 12:57 am

I have noticed that the final weekend of Division 4 games have all been rated twice on the FIDE website. I am hoping that this will simply be rectified soon and that this does not need to reported to FIDE? (I had to contact them once before and it was too much hassle to be repeated in a hurry).

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 5038
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by LawrenceCooper » Thu May 19, 2016 7:50 am

Alex Bullen wrote:I have noticed that the final weekend of Division 4 games have all been rated twice on the FIDE website. I am hoping that this will simply be rectified soon and that this does not need to reported to FIDE? (I had to contact them once before and it was too much hassle to be repeated in a hurry).
Yes, apparently Div 4S was submitted twice and Div 3N not at all. 4NCL are aware and trying to get it corrected. Ironically the rating server has rated the events before the error was noticed so the mistake was easier to detect.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 8880
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu May 19, 2016 8:53 am

Yes, I was made aware of this yesterday. Dave Thomas usually generates these from the software and sends them in, but he sent the same file in under two different names, but he's on holiday for a fortnight at the moment. I haven't got access to the bit of the 4NCL server that generates rating files, so I got in touch with Matthew Carr yesterday, who does. Or at least, he'd better...!

Either way, we'll get it sorted, even if it needs to be done manually, game-by-game.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:10 pm

Does anybody know when the pairings for weekend 1 will be available?

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 5038
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:24 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:Does anybody know when the pairings for weekend 1 will be available?
No, but I'm guessing that they may be waiting for the deadline for additional registrations (10th Nov) which I think is the last date to withdraw teams from the first weekend without penalty.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:51 pm

Aha - thanks Lawrence

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 8880
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: 4NCL Division Four (South)

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:55 pm

"When are the 4NCL pairings being published?" is becoming the new "When is the grading list coming out?"

Post Reply