Division Three South (2015-16)

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Neil Graham
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Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:29 pm

Interesting start to the newly constituted 16 team Division Three (South).

Pool A has just one team with 4/4 and all the teams are off the mark whereas Pool B has three teams with 4/4 and conversely three teams with 0/4. Could be a very close run competition for places in the promotion and relegation pools.

benedgell
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by benedgell » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:40 pm

In the first round 7 of the 8 matches finished either 3-3 or 3.5- 2.5.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:54 pm

! Impressive :)

Neil Graham
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:05 pm

Bearing in mind the comment on the seedings in Division Three North, I can advise that Division Three South appears quite a bit stronger than it's northern counterpart.

Working on the more reliable ECF grades in Round One, Pool A averaged ECF 184 with the lowest team graded an average 174 and the highest 196. Pool B was less strong with an average of ECF 178, the highest two teams at 185 and the lowest at 170.

I haven't bothered working out Round Two but I guess it wouldn't have been much different.

pauldhatchett
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by pauldhatchett » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:13 pm

Neil Graham wrote:Bearing in mind the comment on the seedings in Division Three North, I can advise that Division Three South appears quite a bit stronger than it's northern counterpart.

Working on the more reliable ECF grades in Round One, Pool A averaged ECF 184 with the lowest team graded an average 174 and the highest 196. Pool B was less strong with an average of ECF 178, the highest two teams at 185 and the lowest at 170.

I haven't bothered working out Round Two but I guess it wouldn't have been much different.
Using ECF grades for Div3SA may not be more accurate considering both West is Best and the team I play in have Welsh players.

As an aside, the playing conditions at the hotel were excellent. I don't think I have had so much room for a match. The 4NCL team should be commended as it was an improvement on last year's hotel. It is also an easy walk to find a pub, should that be your wish!
Paul Hatchett
(Captain - Rhyfelwyr Essyllwg)

Mike Truran
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:04 pm

Thanks Paul, that's appreciated. Quite a few people had nice things to say about the venue. :D

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:49 pm

Neil Graham wrote:Bearing in mind the comment on the seedings in Division Three North, I can advise that Division Three South appears quite a bit stronger than it's northern counterpart.
After the first weekend, I'd be inclined to suggest that West is Best in pool A and Surbiton in pool B are the teams to watch out for. Last season the top two division 2 promotions went to teams who scored 13/14 and 10/14 respectively. I would have thought the teams in division 3 sufficiently well matched that 13/14 is unlikely.

The published ratings aren't so good a guide, with some teams electing to base the legality of their board order on converted ECF grades, whilst others use the FIDE ratings.

The two IMs in division 3 are both in pool A, although in the first weekend Laurence was only present as a manager (and coach).

Neil Graham
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Neil Graham » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:22 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:Bearing in mind the comment on the seedings in Division Three North, I can advise that Division Three South appears quite a bit stronger than it's northern counterpart.
After the first weekend, I'd be inclined to suggest that West is Best in pool A and Surbiton in pool B are the teams to watch out for. Last season the top two division 2 promotions went to teams who scored 13/14 and 10/14 respectively. I would have thought the teams in division 3 sufficiently well matched that 13/14 is unlikely.

The published ratings aren't so good a guide, with some teams electing to base the legality of their board order on converted ECF grades, whilst others use the FIDE ratings.

The two IMs in division 3 are both in pool A, although in the first weekend Laurence was only present as a manager (and coach).
I'm not too sure who Laurence is but I definitely saw someone called Lawrence playing on Board One for Midland Monarchs in Round Two. :)

As regards the ECF grades West is Best were the highest graded team in Round One on average ECF 196 - also in Pool A Shropshire were graded at 192 ECF; both Surbiton and Wessex had average ECF grades of 185 in Pool B.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:53 am

Neil Graham wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:The two IMs in division 3 are both in pool A, although in the first weekend Laurence was only present as a manager (and coach).
I'm not too sure who Laurence is but I definitely saw someone called Lawrence playing on Board One for Midland Monarchs in Round Two. :)
I did indeed turn out on the Sunday and only found an extra player to allow me the Saturday off on the previous Thursday night :oops:

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by MartinCarpenter » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:50 am

From the sounds of that, 3S is definitely more consistently strong than 3N.

Sounds like the promotion pools will be pretty similar though. Alba is likely the strongest team in either third division by a fair margin, DCA A/MM1 can hit 190 average, maybe 4 others can hit 185, then 3 others at 170. So anyone going up will have earnt it :)
(The 2 spots would maybe have been slightly questionable had Alba/Broadlands not entered.).

There are then a bunch of teams lower than that, some of whom would definitely be in Division 4 in the south, some who might be surviving in Div3.

Mick Norris
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:08 am

Last season's combined div 3 saw Cheddleton 2 finish in 5th and Broadland in 8th - both teams lost a match this weekend in div 3 N

It is very early to draw any conclusions, I think both Div 3 S and Div 3 N will have strong promotion pools, but the other pool will be weaker in the N than the S

MM1 had most of our top rated players missing, plus we use ECF converted grades rather than FIDE ratings (as Neil knows, having played me recently, my ECF grade is much more accurate than my FIDE rating :oops: )
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:12 pm

Mick Norris wrote:MM1 had most of our top rated players missing, plus we use ECF converted grades rather than FIDE ratings (as Neil knows, having played me recently, my ECF grade is much more accurate than my FIDE rating :oops: )
The northern MM1 as opposed to the southern one :wink:

benedgell
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by benedgell » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:31 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:Bearing in mind the comment on the seedings in Division Three North, I can advise that Division Three South appears quite a bit stronger than it's northern counterpart.
After the first weekend, I'd be inclined to suggest that West is Best in pool A and Surbiton in pool B are the teams to watch out for.
Thanks (on behalf of WiB). Last season we started with 2 wins and went on to get relegated, though... And the match score for the Sunday really doesn't do justice to how close The Rookies came to beating us, in spite of being outrated 150+ points a board.

Neil Graham
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:13 am

The opening ECF averages for Teams in Division Three South in Round One were:-

Pool A

West is Best 1 196 (4)
Shropshire 1 192 (2)
Anglian Avengers 185 (3)
Leeds Old Boys 183 (1)
Oxford 2 183 (1)
Rhyfelwyr Essyllwg 180 (2)
The Rookies 179 (1)
Midland Monarchs 174 (2)

Pool B

Surbiton 185 (4)
Wessex 185 (4)
Ashfield/Breadsall 179 (4)
Poisoned Pawns 178 (2)
Warwickshire Select 178 (0)
Fermented Sharks 174 (0)
Milton Keynes Phoenix 171 (0)
BCM Hippos 170 (2)

Before anyone asks I have not used Welsh FIDE ratings but used ECF gradings which applied to everyone. I haven't repeated the process for Round Two. Points to date in brackets.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Division Three South (2015-16)

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:01 pm

Just to have them tidily here to compare, the 3N equivalents are:

Pool A

DCA A 187 (4)
Broadland 183 (2)
Cheddleton 2 181 (2)
3Cs2 177 (4)
Holmes Chapel 168 (2)
Spirit C 160 (1)
Jorvik 159 (1)
Manchester 3 150 (0)

Pool B

Alba ~200 (4)
Spirit B 185 (1)
Manchester 1 179 (3)
DCA B 168 (3)
Manchester 2 167 (2)
Manx 160 (2)
DCA C 156 (0)
Cheddleton 3 141 (1)

Alba is a bit tricky for obvious reasons.

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