Promotions and relegations

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
NickFaulks
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by NickFaulks » Thu May 12, 2016 8:50 am

MartinCarpenter wrote: (the 167 going to ~2000 really benefits from the extra time!)
That is a very important point. FIDE ratings are commonly criticised as inaccurate because they are based on fewer games, but for 4NCL purposes they may well be more accurate because they reflect performance in longer time control games.

Paul Dargan
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Paul Dargan » Thu May 12, 2016 10:11 am

Yep there's a world of difference between effectively G/75 or G/90 in the upstairs room of a pub after a day in the office and a 2pm start with 6-7 hour session time, staying at the venue each night.

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by MartinCarpenter » Thu May 12, 2016 9:25 pm

Very true in general. About 1/3 to 1/4 evening league games my brain just doesn't turn up these days.

Just to be tricky in the specific case of Jorvik, the York evening league isn't ECF rated, so those ECF ratings are mostly comprised of quite 'slow' games anyway :) Still, a time trouble addict can easily enough find quite a difference between 42 in 105 + 15 to finish (Yorkshire league, congresses iirc) and the 4NCL!

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:44 am

Provisional starting standings 2016-17
07.6.16 - All teams relegated from division two have now indicated their intention of entering division three South next season. We are therefore in a position to determine the promotions to division two and three South for next season. The provisional composition of the divisions in seeding order (subject, of course, to any withdrawals) http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1617_pss.htm

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:58 am

Somewhat diminished looking Div3N there. Suppose its what happens when none of our promoted teams come back down again :)

Mick Norris
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:12 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:Somewhat diminished looking Div3N there. Suppose its what happens when none of our promoted teams come back down again :)
It is good when you can say 14 is a low figure :wink: even if it is theoretically down on last year's 16 due to the 2 promotions, but remember this time last year we wouldn't have expected (all of) Broadland, Alba & Manx to join
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:20 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
MartinCarpenter wrote:Somewhat diminished looking Div3N there. Suppose its what happens when none of our promoted teams come back down again :)
It is good when you can say 14 is a low figure :wink: even if it is theoretically down on last year's 16 due to the 2 promotions, but remember this time last year we wouldn't have expected (all of) Broadland, Alba & Manx to join
Ashfield & Breadsall have already said that they will be moving north.

Mike Truran
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:58 pm

:D :D :D

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by MartinCarpenter » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:09 pm

Good news :) Very tidy if they bring both teams and it ends up with 16 again!

I was perhaps thinking as much about real promotion candidates as pure numbers. All of Broadland/Manchester/Cheddleton 2 could of course more or less cope in division 2 - and few others wouldn't get wiped out - but they're not quite the same sort of thing as Atticus/Alba, or even North East 1.

Neil Graham
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Neil Graham » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:49 pm

So it is clear the Ashfield-Breadsall application is for BOTH teams to play in Division Three (North). If anyone wants an official e-mail from me to that effect let me know.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:31 pm

Neil Graham wrote:So it is clear the Ashfield-Breadsall application is for BOTH teams to play in Division Three (North).
That presumably would be treated as a withdrawal of Ashfield-Breadsall 1 from division 3S and thus a relegation reprieve for division 4 top seeds Poisoned Pawns.

David Pardoe
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:00 pm

Good to see the Notts boys joining the northern group....they will definitely add to the quality and variety of our 4NCL Northern league chess offerings..

Hopefully more will follow... it would be good to see the team numbers boosted to around the 20 mark in our Northern quarter, so additional new teams from Derbyshire, Teesside/Durham/North Yorks/Humberside/Lincs.... and maybe Cheshire or other areas would be very welcome.
See the 4NCL website for details, and contact any of the team managers/captains for further information..
BRING BACK THE BCF

Mick Norris
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Mick Norris » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:17 pm

Neil Graham wrote:So it is clear the Ashfield-Breadsall application is for BOTH teams to play in Division Three (North). If anyone wants an official e-mail from me to that effect let me know.
:lol:

You will be very welcome - do you think your first team will be challenging for promotion?
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Neil Graham
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Neil Graham » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:44 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Neil Graham wrote:So it is clear the Ashfield-Breadsall application is for BOTH teams to play in Division Three (North). If anyone wants an official e-mail from me to that effect let me know.
:lol:

You will be very welcome - do you think your first team will be challenging for promotion?
"I never make forecasts but whoever wins this game will win the final.” Ken Bates

It is clear that the two strongest teams in Division Three (North) 2015/6 outpaced the remaining teams in the promotion pool. None of the other teams really stood out last year. Ashfield-Breadsall 1 would certainly be "in the mix" with the teams who finished 3rd-8th. That said who knows who will be playing next season and what form the League will take? Certainly the seeding in Division Three (South) bore no relation to either the teams who were promoted or those who finished in the promotion/relegation pools.

The situation in Division Four (South) last year was also rather odd. There were several very weak teams at the foot of the League and there was a three point gap between the weaker sides and those in the upper half of the table of which Ashfield-Breadsall 2 finished bottom with 10/22. The presence of a number of junior teams in this Division is not mirrored in Div Three (North) where there are few juniors playing.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Promotions and relegations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:56 pm

Neil Graham wrote:The situation in Division Four (South) last year was also rather odd. There were several very weak teams at the foot of the League and there was a three point gap between the weaker sides and those in the upper half of the table.
Division 3 South didn't contain any teams likely to be totally outclassed and it's probably the same for 2016-17. Division 4 South may well continue to suffer from a gap between top and bottom.

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