Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Gordon Morse
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Gordon Morse » Sat May 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Cheddleton is on the outskirts of Stoke-on-Trent and is about 30 miles from Derby.

As for the whole thread, this seems appropriate:

https://www.comedycard.co.uk/products/f ... e-northern
I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat May 06, 2017 12:22 pm

This thread is quite hilarious.

Already we are on the second page and no one has pointed out that the title itself is factually wrong - it is only Guildford's fourth consecutive title. (Though they are indeed unbeaten over five years).

(I wouldn't have mentioned it, were it not for this thread. It feels more like ten years, after all).

Edit: I am glad that I didn't mention it - because I didn't, not really. It is my memory at fault, and Leonard was quite right. I remembered that the team with "draw odds" in the final round won the title, because it has done every year since 2004, but i imagined that Wood Green had been in that position.
Last edited by Jonathan Rogers on Sat May 06, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat May 06, 2017 12:41 pm

John McKenna wrote:Despite the omissions mentioned in the first post above, by Alan (who had at least a couple of teams in the mix), I don't think Leonard's 4NCL final-results piece is bad at all, from a more neutral perspective.

The piece was evenhanded, in some respects, in that the southern Barbican teams were also not mentioned.

In the final weekend's 9th round, played on the Saturday, Barbican's 1st team gave Guildford's 1st their closest shave of the season with the latter only winning by 4.5-3.5, even though the ratings were greatly in Guildford's favour.

Both 3Cs and Barbican probably deserve an honourable mention, but a journalist cannot please all people all the time.

Thanks to Leonard for continuing to write, and to Alan for providing the link and for raising the points in this thread, which add a welcome northern perspective on Leonard's piece.
Completely agree. The Guildford v Barbican match certainly merits coverage in the chess press.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat May 06, 2017 1:11 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:Completely agree. The Guildford v Barbican match certainly merits coverage in the chess press.
As did WGHK's 5-3 win against a Cheddleton team on 100% and fielding six grandmasters (including three 2600+) to our one. A mention of the norms, most notably, eighteen year old Ravi Haria securing his final IM norm and title and first GM norm wouldn't have gone amiss either.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat May 06, 2017 1:20 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote:Completely agree. The Guildford v Barbican match certainly merits coverage in the chess press.
As did WGHK's 5-3 win against a Cheddleton team on 100% and fielding six grandmasters (including three 2600+) to our one. A mention of the norms, most notably, eighteen year old Ravi Haria securing his final IM norm and title and first GM norm wouldn't have gone amiss either.
Oh yes, completely agree about the norms too - but especially for the older generation 8)

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat May 06, 2017 1:26 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote:Completely agree. The Guildford v Barbican match certainly merits coverage in the chess press.
As did WGHK's 5-3 win against a Cheddleton team on 100% and fielding six grandmasters (including three 2600+) to our one. A mention of the norms, most notably, eighteen year old Ravi Haria securing his final IM norm and title and first GM norm wouldn't have gone amiss either.
Oh yes, completely agree about the norms too - but especially for the older generation 8)
Agreed, I'm hoping we don't have to wait quite so long for your next one.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat May 06, 2017 1:33 pm


David Robertson
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by David Robertson » Sat May 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Alan Walton wrote:The main gripe I had with the article, saying Spirit of Atticus started the successful north-west run, considering ourselves (3Cs) re-entered the league about 8 years ago and hopefully now considered a stable "A" Division team, make this comment factually incorrect
No, it doesn't. Barden expressly refers to the route from 3N to Div 1. Your lot were conspicuously absent from 3N in its formative years. And you, personally, went on record to say 3Cs would never play in it. Rewrite history at your peril

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 06, 2017 3:56 pm

Jonathan Rogers wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote:Completely agree. The Guildford v Barbican match certainly merits coverage in the chess press.
As did WGHK's 5-3 win against a Cheddleton team on 100% and fielding six grandmasters (including three 2600+) to our one. A mention of the norms, most notably, eighteen year old Ravi Haria securing his final IM norm and title and first GM norm wouldn't have gone amiss either.
Oh yes, completely agree about the norms too - but especially for the older generation 8)
I was going to mention it, but kept forgetting! How many norms do you have now, or is it just the one?

Were you surprised to get a norm, or do you feel you played better this season than in previous seasons, or was it just a case of getting the right mix of titled players and playing well enough?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 06, 2017 3:58 pm

The biggest news of all didn't get covered... (no seriously, it deserves to be marked here as well):
4NCL wrote:02.5.17 - As many of you will be aware Dave Welch has decided to stand down as the 4NCL’s Chief Arbiter.

On behalf of all chess players, organisers, colleagues, friends and the 4NCL management we would like to say a heartfelt thank you for the dedicated and professional service David has provided over many years.

David's wisdom, patience and understanding has been very much appreciated. No doubt we will see him at many more 4NCL events in the coming years.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat May 06, 2017 4:00 pm

For the record (here) from the 4NCL site:

Title Norms

Daniel Fernandez (Guildford) 3rd GM norm
Ravi Haria (Wood Green HK) GM norm + 3rd IM norm
Jonathan Rogers (Barbican) IM norm
David Fitzsimons (Wood Green HK) IM norm
Richard Weaving (Wood Green HK) IM norm
Martin Taylor (Barbican) IM norm
Matthias Gantner (White Rose) IM norm

Would those who have long memories be able to say whether this is a 'normal' crop of norms, or whether there are (say) less GM norms that expected. Would the influx of that German team (Trier?) next season (and presumably will win promotion to division 1 the season after) make more norms possible?

(Apologies for piggy-backing on this thread, may start a new thread later if time).

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Sat May 06, 2017 4:05 pm

David Robertson wrote:No, it doesn't. Barden expressly refers to the route from 3N to Div 1. Your lot were conspicuously absent from 3N in its formative years. And you, personally, went on record to say 3Cs would never play in it. Rewrite history at your peril
Firstly, our 1st team were already in Div2 when the northern league was created, promoted from Div3 (the season before the northern league was created) at the first attempt and eventually in the position we are today

My original comment about the northern league was when the 3S venues were located very close to each other and assisted our transportation, and our philosophy of playing different opposition which we normally would meet; once the split happened a venues went further south the only logical option was to enter the Northern League

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat May 06, 2017 4:14 pm

Looks like slightly, but not significantly, more norms than normal.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat May 06, 2017 4:19 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Jonathan Rogers wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
As did WGHK's 5-3 win against a Cheddleton team on 100% and fielding six grandmasters (including three 2600+) to our one. A mention of the norms, most notably, eighteen year old Ravi Haria securing his final IM norm and title and first GM norm wouldn't have gone amiss either.
Oh yes, completely agree about the norms too - but especially for the older generation 8)
I was going to mention it, but kept forgetting! How many norms do you have now, or is it just the one?

Were you surprised to get a norm, or do you feel you played better this season than in previous seasons, or was it just a case of getting the right mix of titled players and playing well enough?
My first, thus Loz's comment about leaving les of a gap before next time!

Kind of surprised, because, as Barbican captain (of more than one team), 4NCL is never likely to be fertile norm territory for me. Take the game I won to clinch the norm - I spent much of the first hour wondering what had happened to a missing player in the second team, and I only really started to think about the game at 3.30 pm. Fortunately not much had happened yet, and besides, I have become quite used to this.

Against that, I am probably quite good by FM standards, and you might think that in almost 20 years I should get at least one norm on the basis of probability alone. I certainly didn't feel that I played much better than usual, the main differences were that I had just a bit of luck and I was more clinical with my very good/winning positions, only dropping half a point from such a position (in the first round) through the season, rather than the usual 1.5 or 2 over the season.

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat May 06, 2017 4:21 pm

Unusual to have two GM norms, perhaps we had an extra IM norm too. Hard to say what the impact of Manx Liberty will be, in this regard.

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