Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
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Alan Walton
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Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Fri May 05, 2017 9:43 pm

I don't normally comment on Leonard's article as they are so well informed, but this has to be the worst ever

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... tive-title

Here are my points of disagreement

1) The Surrey based team, yes they are called Guildford, but not many of the 1st team have seen Surrey
2) Daniel Fernandez is at Cambridge, but family is Manchester based (no mention again)
3) No mention of 3Cs (a north-west team), the only "A" division team to contain a majority of players from a club (not a group of players), finishing 4th isn't a achievement around team who have spent significantly more
4) Teams coming out the 3rd Division have been mentioned a lot (including Manchester, Alba and Gonzaga), but he forgets that Gonzaga lost to 3Cs 2

Rant over
Last edited by Alan Walton on Sat May 06, 2017 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

David Robertson
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by David Robertson » Fri May 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Alan Walton wrote:Rant over
...and cork replaced in bottle

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Fri May 05, 2017 10:09 pm

David Robertson wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:Rant over
...and cork replaced in bottle
Pity I don't drink whine, just a few pints instead

Richard Bates
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Richard Bates » Fri May 05, 2017 10:20 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
David Robertson wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:Rant over
...and cork replaced in bottle
Pity I don't drink whine, just a few pints instead
Reads like more than a few... ;)

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Fri May 05, 2017 10:22 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:
David Robertson wrote: ...and cork replaced in bottle
Pity I don't drink whine, just a few pints instead
Reads like more than a few... ;)

You know me too well

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Fri May 05, 2017 10:23 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
David Robertson wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:Rant over
...and cork replaced in bottle
Pity I don't drink whine, just a few pints instead
Rather a good typo in the circumstances ;)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Fri May 05, 2017 10:29 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:
David Robertson wrote: ...and cork replaced in bottle
Pity I don't drink whine, just a few pints instead
Rather a good typo in the circumstances ;)
Was deliberate unfortunately

John McKenna
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by John McKenna » Fri May 05, 2017 11:22 pm

Despite the omissions mentioned in the first post above, by Alan (who had at least a couple of teams in the mix), I don't think Leonard's 4NCL final-results piece is bad at all, from a more neutral perspective.

The piece was evenhanded, in some respects, in that the southern Barbican teams were also not mentioned.

In the final weekend's 9th round, played on the Saturday, Barbican's 1st team gave Guildford's 1st their closest shave of the season with the latter only winning by 4.5-3.5, even though the ratings were greatly in Guildford's favour.

Both 3Cs and Barbican probably deserve an honourable mention, but a journalist cannot please all people all the time.

Thanks to Leonard for continuing to write, and to Alan for providing the link and for raising the points in this thread, which add a welcome northern perspective on Leonard's piece.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sat May 06, 2017 8:17 am

Leonard's article seemed fine to me. Most of us would be happy if that were the worst we ever wrote, or even the best...

When Guildford started in the 4NCL, they decided to try very hard to win it, but they did also say they would have an entirely Surrey-based team starting lower down the league. Nigel Povah rang round the other Surrey clubs asking their leading players if they wanted to play for it. 4NCL rules are you can use anyone you like, so I think Guildford deserve congratulations for aiming to have a Surrey-based team as well.

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Sat May 06, 2017 8:59 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Leonard's article seemed fine to me. Most of us would be happy if that were the worst we ever wrote, or even the best...

When Guildford started in the 4NCL, they decided to try very hard to win it, but they did also say they would have an entirely Surrey-based team starting lower down the league. Nigel Povah rang round the other Surrey clubs asking their leading players if they wanted to play for it. 4NCL rules are you can use anyone you like, so I think Guildford deserve congratulations for aiming to have a Surrey-based team as well.
That might have been the case at the outset, but nowadays it really just named after the town; I always wonder why people spend vast amounts of money on the 4NCL, myself this year spent more than the past for the main aim to qualify for the Euro Club Champs; but why spend thousands just to win a league by the vast margin and then not try the same for the Euro Club (but perhaps don't want to waste money against the big boys from eastern Europe)

The main gripe I had with the article, saying Spirit of Atticus started the successful north-west run, considering ourselves (3Cs) re-entered the league about 8 years ago and hopefully now considered a stable "A" Division team, make this comment factually incorrect

Also perhaps he forgot to notice that 3 teams out of the top 5 in the "A" Division are Northern teams (Cheddleton , 3Cs and White Rose)

Mike Truran
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Mike Truran » Sat May 06, 2017 11:01 am

Northern takeover? Perhaps a team called The White Walkers to complete the job?

Matthew Turner
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Matthew Turner » Sat May 06, 2017 11:17 am

I think Leonard has a problem with the naming of many of the teams. If you know nothing about cricket or football, you can still get behind Sussex or Liverpool because of some accident of birth. It is unlikely that many non-chess players will be rooting for Cheddleston. How many non-chess players would know where, or what, 3C's was? Would the 4NCL be more marketable if 3cs were Manchester, Cheddleston Derby?
Certainly an interesting point of view.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat May 06, 2017 11:56 am

I think the article was fine for a national newspaper. The omissions Alan refers to might be fair comment if the article appeared in a chess magazine, but it didn't.
Kevin Thurlow wrote:When Guildford started in the 4NCL, they decided to try very hard to win it, but they did also say they would have an entirely Surrey-based team starting lower down the league. Nigel Povah rang round the other Surrey clubs asking their leading players if they wanted to play for it. 4NCL rules are you can use anyone you like, so I think Guildford deserve congratulations for aiming to have a Surrey-based team as well.
That went out of the window a long time ago.

Guildford first played in the 4NCL in the 1995/96 season, at which time it was a team based on local players. By the 1999/2000 season non-local paid players were in the team, and the local players demoted to lower teams. That arrangement continued, apparently quite happily, until the 2011/12 when Roger Emerson took over as captain. That season saw more non-local paid players brought into the team, and local players dropped from the team (no matter how long, and regularly, they'd played for the team in the past).

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Sat May 06, 2017 11:58 am

Matthew Turner wrote:I think Leonard has a problem with the naming of many of the teams. If you know nothing about cricket or football, you can still get behind Sussex or Liverpool because of some accident of birth. It is unlikely that many non-chess players will be rooting for Cheddleston. How many non-chess players would know where, or what, 3C's was? Would the 4NCL be more marketable if 3cs were Manchester, Cheddleston Derby?
Certainly an interesting point of view.
Valid point Matthew, we used to call ourselves 3Cs Oldham in the 4NCL (also previously labelled with our sponsors, prior to our original withdrawal), we decided to drop the Oldham since we believed that people should know the club from the real name (in the chess world)

I suspect Leonard has heard of the club since we have been around nearly 40 years, and won the ECF Club of the Year twice

Alan Walton
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Re: Mr Barden's Guardian Article

Post by Alan Walton » Sat May 06, 2017 12:00 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:I think the article was fine for a national newspaper. The omissions Alan refers to might be fair comment if the article appeared in a chess magazine, but it didn't.
Ian, you maybe correct; but sometimes even in a national paper an article has to be factually accurate

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