Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Alex McFarlane
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:51 am

Now Fixed

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:05 am

rd 1 rd 2 rd 3 rd 4 rd 5 rd 6 P W D L GP Pts
1 Gonzaga gon soab 4½ ash1 4 brab 5½ cas 4½ ash2 5½ che2 4 6 6 0 0 28 12
2 3Cs 2 3cs2 enn 4½ brab 4½ man2 4 ash2 5½ cas 4 soab 4½ 6 6 0 0 27 12
3 Shropshire 1 shr1 man4 5 braa 5 wks2 3 man3 3 brab 3 jor 4 6 4 2 0 23 10
4 Bradford DCA Knights A braa ash2 4½ shr1 1 jor 5½ enn 4½ man2 3½ wks2 3½ 6 5 0 1 22½ 10
5 Spirit of Atticus B soab gon 1½ shr2 3½ brac 4½ che2 4 3cs3 5½ 3cs2 1½ 6 4 0 2 20½ 8
6 Cheddleton 2 che2 hol 4½ man2 3½ ash1 3½ soab 2 shr2 5 gon 2 6 4 0 2 20½ 8
7 Holmes Chapel hol che2 1½ 3cs3 4½ shr2 4 wks2 2½ ash1 3½ man3 3½ 6 4 0 2 19½ 8
8 Warwickshire Select 2 wks2 cas 4½ jor 2½ shr1 3 hol 3½ man4 5 braa 2½ 6 3 1 2 21 7
9 Jorvik jor man3 3 wks2 3½ braa ½ man4 5½ brac 3½ shr1 2 6 3 1 2 18 7
10 Ashfield-Breadsall 1 ash1 shr2 3½ gon 2 che2 2½ 3cs3 6 man3 3 hol 2½ 6 2 1 3 19½ 5
11 Bradford DCA Knights B brab brac 4½ 3cs2 1½ gon ½ shr2 2 shr1 3 man4 3½ 6 2 1 3 15 5
12 Manchester Manticores 2 man2 3cs3 4½ che2 2½ 3cs2 2 brac 2½ braa 2½ shr2 3½ 6 2 0 4 17½ 4
13 Manchester Manticores 3 man3 jor 3 cas 2½ ash2 4 shr1 2 hol 2½ ash1 3 6 1 2 3 17 4
14 Castleford Roses cas wks2 1½ man3 3½ 3cs3 2½ gon 1½ 3cs2 1 brac 3½ 6 2 0 4 13½ 4
15 Enniscorthy enn 3cs2 1½ brac 4½ man4 3½ braa 1½ 4 2 0 2 11 4
16 Ashfield-Breadsall 2 ash2 braa 1½ man4 4½ man3 2 3cs2 -½ gon ½ 3cs3 3 6 1 1 4 11 3
17 3Cs 3 3cs3 man2 1½ hol 1½ cas 3½ ash1 0 soab ½ ash2 3 6 1 1 4 10 3
18 Shropshire 2 shr2 ash1 2½ soab 1½ hol 2 brab 4 che2 1 man2 2½ 6 1 0 5 13½ 2
19 Bradford DCA Knights C brac brab 1½ enn ½ soab 1½ man2 3½ jor 2½ cas 1½ 6 1 0 5 11 2
20 Manchester Manticores 4 man4 shr1 1 ash2 1½ enn 2½ jor ½ wks2 1 brab 2½ 6 0 0 6 9 0
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:08 am

Looks like a 4 team race for the 2 promotion spots

I wonder if we will see Gonzaga v Shrops 1 and Bradford A at weekend 4, with 3Cs 2 playing both too, leaving Gonzaga v 3Cs 2 to the final weekend
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am

That will be interesting, yes :)

What are the rules on refusing promotion like? Its a definitely a running possibility for the odd team.

Mike Truran
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:08 am

The rules on refusing promotion can be found in the rules. :shock:

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:43 am

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am
What are the rules on refusing promotion like?
Teams may wish to note the venues for next season. Divisions 3S and 4 will be moving about a hour north.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:57 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:43 am
MartinCarpenter wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am
What are the rules on refusing promotion like?
Teams may wish to note the venues for next season. Divisions 3S and 4 will be moving about a hour north.
That would be in your private helicopter, would it? My Sat Nav says the journey is just under 90 miles and takes almost 2 hours by car.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:17 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:57 am

That would be in your private helicopter, would it? My Sat Nav says the journey is just under 90 miles and takes almost 2 hours by car.
Depends where you start. I get 1hr 40 for Wokefield Park to Daventry and about the same to Bedford. The Daventry route goes via Marlow and so I would save the 30/35 minutes it takes to reach Wokefield.

From Bournemouth, it's two and half hours to Bedford and about the same to Daventry. The same source (the AA app) quotes 1 hour 25 minutes to Wokefield Park.

Mick Norris
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:42 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am
That will be interesting, yes :)

What are the rules on refusing promotion like? Its a definitely a running possibility for the odd team.
I reckon losing a match or 2 would be the efficient way :lol:

I'd expect Gonzaga, 3Cs 2 and Shropshire 1 to accept promotion if they finish in the top 2

If, say, Bradford A finished 2nd but didn't want to go up, as I read it then it would save a Div 2 team from relegation, rather than the 3rd place team in Div 3 North going up
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Alan Walton
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Alan Walton » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:17 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:42 pm
MartinCarpenter wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:47 am
That will be interesting, yes :)

What are the rules on refusing promotion like? Its a definitely a running possibility for the odd team.
I reckon losing a match or 2 would be the efficient way :lol:

I'd expect Gonzaga, 3Cs 2 and Shropshire 1 to accept promotion if they finish in the top 2

If, say, Bradford A finished 2nd but didn't want to go up, as I read it then it would save a Div 2 team from relegation, rather than the 3rd place team in Div 3 North going up
Personally, I don't believe any team should be able to decline promotion, it defeats the object of any competition; if it is allowed then they should either forfeit the prize received or be ineligible for future prizes for a set period of seasons (say 2)

Perhaps teams should at the beginning of the season make the league aware of their intention to decline promotion; doing it after the season has finished seems wrong

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:29 pm

I'd definitely agree about perhaps looking into doing something about it in advance.

I don't normally like it all but there is, I think, legitimate motivation for potentially refusing promotion with 3N vs Div2. That move means that you're suddenly requiring a lot of more travel commitment from your players along with a female/junior board.

Div 2 isn't remotely easy at the best of times, but lose a couple of good players and it could easily tip to outright 'suffering'.

Alan Walton
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Alan Walton » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:37 pm

I sympathise with team logistics; but why should a team enter a competition which main aim is to gain promotion; if they have no intention of taking promotion then all they are doing is taking my the place of more willing participants; therefore it seems to me necessary for this intention to be given at the beginning of the season so then they are discounted from the reckoning

Another factor is puts less pressure on players if promotion isn’t being considered, so they are likely to play with more freedom

Nick Burrows
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Nick Burrows » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:51 pm

It's not always as clear cut as a team having "no intention" of taking promotion. Over half of the Oxford squad drive back and forth to the venue each day, which is an hours drive. 3/5 Div 2 fixtures next season are in Telford which is a 2 hour drive. Depending on the specific makeup of next seasons squad, and as yet undeclared willingness to either do a 4 hour round trip or stay in the hotel; it is unclear whether we would be able to take a (now unlikely) promotion spot in Div 2.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:06 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:51 pm
3/5 Div 2 fixtures next season are in Telford which is a 2 hour drive.
Oxford have the geographic fortune to be not much more than an hour away almost wherever the 4NCL is located, apart from Telford. Again depending where you start, it's less than two hours to Telford from Oxfordshire. I've done it in two hours from Marlow and I'm driving past Oxford after about twenty five to thirty minutes.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Div 3 North 2017 - 18

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:09 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:42 pm
If, say, Bradford A finished 2nd but didn't want to go up, as I read it then it would save a Div 2 team from relegation, rather than the 3rd place team in Div 3 North going up
It would, but whether that's a good rule is another question, with 22 teams currently in Division 3 North and only 2 promotion places. It's not much better in Division 3 South with 16 teams chasing their 2 promotion spots.

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