DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Venues, fixtures, teams and related matters.
Roger Lancaster
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Roger Lancaster » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:39 pm

This year, both divisions 3S and 4S will be played, a single weekend in Bedford excepted, in Daventry which appears rather more attractive (for travel reasons) to some 'fringe northern' teams than Wokefield Park so it's probably reasonable to assume that some will opt for the more southerly option.

Mick Norris
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:02 pm

Paul Dargan wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:22 pm
North East England is considering entering a 2nd team again - subject to making sure we have sufficient interest and an on-site captain for the team. We'll suss out support over the Summer and see where we get to.
I'm assuming the answer was no?

Looks like Warks 2 and Shrops 2 (and 3) have followed AB 1&2 south; having lost Gonzaga & Bradford A to promotion, it's looking like a big reduction in numbers
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:25 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:02 pm
Looks like Warks 2 and Shrops 2 (and 3) have followed AB 1&2 south
Midlands based teams have a choice when divisions 3S and 4 move back to the Midlands or nearer the Midlands.

David Pardoe
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by David Pardoe » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:23 pm

It is disappointing to see these teams drift south, leaving the North to try to fill the gaps.
Maybe some rule changes to see more teams in div 3 North would be good.
It is a strong group so definitely merits good support...
I hope more teams from the northern areas will come forward, and maybe the southern groups should play further south to help balance the travel issues.
I certainly would like to see teams like Notts encouraged to play in the North section... but also to encourage a few new teams to join the party would be good.
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David Robertson
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by David Robertson » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:28 pm

More teams may be wanted, but they'll likely have to come for the most part from outside the territorial North.

Div 3N has been a fantastic success. This coming season, three teams in Div 1, and four teams in Div 2, began life in Div 3N. By the nature of the process, they've displaced seven teams from the South and Midlands who understandably return to their local territory on demotion. There isn't a bottomless pit of Northern replacements.

Were 4NCL to have a free hand in choosing its distribution and quality of venues, some forward planning of Divisions might be possible. But that isn't how things are, nor likely to be. Teams will continue to choose what suits them

LawrenceCooper
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:47 am

It looks like 13 teams for this season: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1819_teams.htm

Mick Norris
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:53 am

11 rounds only 12 opponents possible and triangular matches too; seems a nightmare to pair
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:58 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:53 am
11 rounds only 12 opponents possible and triangular matches too; seems a nightmare to pair
I suspect that the organisers wouldn't object to one team heading south.

Mick Norris
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:59 am

I'll see if our 4th team might take a year off
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David Pardoe
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by David Pardoe » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:11 am

I thought that another team from the North East was considering joining the fray..
We certainly don't want to look to reducing the North league any further if we can avoid it..
as for the scope to expand, there are areas that are either under represented or not represented still in the north who it would be good to hear from.
Derbyshire, Lincolnshire,... the North East, Cheshire and North Wales perhaps...
Maybe the venues need to be revisited at some point.. we`ve had some excellent northern venues in the past.
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Mick Norris
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:52 am

David Robertson wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:28 pm
More teams may be wanted, but they'll likely have to come for the most part from outside the territorial North.

Div 3N has been a fantastic success. This coming season, three teams in Div 1, and four teams in Div 2, began life in Div 3N. By the nature of the process, they've displaced seven teams from the South and Midlands who understandably return to their local territory on demotion. There isn't a bottomless pit of Northern replacements.

Were 4NCL to have a free hand in choosing its distribution and quality of venues, some forward planning of Divisions might be possible. But that isn't how things are, nor likely to be. Teams will continue to choose what suits them
Agree with all of that (and also remember being told that the Northern League was much weaker than Div 3 South :lol: )

Just to emphasise the lack of possible new teams, we have Alba, Manx, 3Cs 1, White Rose 1 and NE England in Div 1, plus Div 2 has Bradford A, SoA A, Gonzaga and Manchester 1, so that's a wide geographical spread from outside the south/midlands

What we are seeing in Div 3N is a reduction in weaker teams (which speaking as a weaker player :oops: , is a pity)
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by MartinCarpenter » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:40 pm

At least White Rose 2 coming down gives us one (very) credible promotion candidate :) Enough teams that would do OK as a second.

David Robertson
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by David Robertson » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:16 pm

I get a feeling that a perverse logic is at work here; an unintended consequence of good planning.

The initial expectation was that two 16-team Divs 3 (3N & 3S) would incentivise teams to shift North in search of promotion. That's sound thinking; and it happened initially. BUT...what goes up, must come down. And if teams aren't relegated evenly between 3N & 3S; or where there is an imbalance towards 3S, then 3N is drained of teams - as we're seeing this year. Even if Man 4 drop out, easing the admin by leaving a 12-team APA, it doesn't really address the structural problem.

What would? I don't really know. One obvious answer is mandation: teams would be 'forcibly'/negotiably allocated to 3N up to 16 teams. A long way from ideal, that's certain. But it may be unavoidable if 4NCL hits capacity issues at its southern venues

Mick Norris
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:19 pm

I'm told we have too many players to go down to 3 teams, so will be sticking with 4, but there's a possibility of a 14th team joining (which would at least avoid the triangular matches, albeit not solve the pairing problems much)

I don't think mandation would work; as said before, unless the venues for Div 3S go further south, there's always a risk of this happening
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Mick Norris
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Re: DIV 3 North..more teams wanted..

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:40 am

Now there are 14 teams

1 3Cs 2
2 Bolton and Worsley
3 Bradford DCA Knights B
4 Bradford DCA Knights C
5 Cheddleton 2
6 Holmes Chapel
7 Jorvik
8 Manchester Manticores 2
9 Manchester Manticores 3
10 Manchester Manticores 4
11 Manx Liberty 2
12 Shropshire 1
13 Spirit of Atticus B
14 White Rose 2
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

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