Politiken Cup 2015

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NickFaulks
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Re: Politiken Cup 2015

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:10 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: I would use the FIDE site, but that never seems to be up-to-date:
I thought they went up as soon as they were sent in. Is there evidence to the contrary?

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Politiken Cup 2015

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:33 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote: I would use the FIDE site, but that never seems to be up-to-date:
I thought they went up as soon as they were sent in. Is there evidence to the contrary?
There certainly was from my time as IRO, their list was far from complete. In fairness to FIDE though it might depend on if the organisers/national federations forwarded them a copy of the norm certificate.

NickFaulks
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Re: Politiken Cup 2015

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:50 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:In fairness to FIDE though it might depend on if the organisers/national federations forwarded them a copy of the norm certificate.
Yes, that's precisely what it depends upon. They can't post what they haven't been sent.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Politiken Cup 2015

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:55 am

So is the process that if player A achieves a norm at event B, then the organisers and arbiters of event B complete the paperwork and provide copies to the player and the national federation of the *player* (not of where the event is held), and the national federation of the player then send in the paperwork to FIDE to get the norm recorded? (Do the organisers/arbiters send anything to FIDE as well?). How much of the onus is on the *player* to make sure all this is done correctly, and how much is the responsibility of the organisers/arbiters/national federations?

I guess what I'm asking for is a listing of the steps that occur from the moment a norm has been achieved to being recorded on the FIDE website. And where things might sometimes fail in those steps if someone doesn't do something at the right point. If I was a player who got a norm ( :lol: ) I would want to know this. I presume players ask the arbiters and liaise with the national federations, but some might assume it all gets done for them rather than follow it up to make sure it has been done correctly.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Politiken Cup 2015

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:07 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:So is the process that if player A achieves a norm at event B, then the organisers and arbiters of event B complete the paperwork and provide copies to the player and the national federation of the *player* (not of where the event is held), and the national federation of the player then send in the paperwork to FIDE to get the norm recorded? (Do the organisers/arbiters send anything to FIDE as well?). How much of the onus is on the *player* to make sure all this is done correctly, and how much is the responsibility of the organisers/arbiters/national federations?

I guess what I'm asking for is a listing of the steps that occur from the moment a norm has been achieved to being recorded on the FIDE website. And where things might sometimes fail in those steps if someone doesn't do something at the right point. If I was a player who got a norm ( :lol: ) I would want to know this. I presume players ask the arbiters and liaise with the national federations, but some might assume it all gets done for them rather than follow it up to make sure it has been done correctly.
The text of the relevant FIDE Regulation is as follows:

"The Chief Arbiter must prepare in quadruplicate certificates of title results achieved. These copies must be provided to the player, the player’s federation, the organizing federation and FIDE. The player is recommended to ask the Chief Arbiter for the certificate before leaving the tournament. The Chief Arbiter is responsible that the TRF file must be submitted to FIDE."

So it is formally the responsibility of the Chief Arbiter to ensure that everybody gets the documentation. However, the certificate is not valid without a counter signature of the International Rating Officer or other designated official of the host Federation. Hence things work better in practice if the latter sends the fully signed certificate to the player's Federation and to FIDE. I have suggested verbally to Nick Faulks that it would be sensible for the Regulation to be amended accordingly.

It is highly desirable for the player to take away a certificate at the end of the event and it is nice if it can be presented to him or her at the prizegiving. Unfortunately it not infrequently proves to be the case that that is the only record. Then later on, when the player completes the requirements for the title, his or her Federation has to try belatedly to obtain one or more counter signatures from other Federations prior to submitting the title application.

Even when the signed certificates are circulated, I have no idea what the ECF does with its copies of signed norms obtained in England, nor with its copies of those obtained by English players elsewhere. This tends to not to matter since, as Nick says, the certificates are published by FIDE if they are lodged with them, although in my experience this takes a week or so at busy times.

Lodging norms with FIDE as obtained is not required in the case of the arbiter titles, but I nevertheless consider it desirable. For English arbiters, there will then be a record on the FIDE website in the event of the death of either me or my computer.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Politiken Cup 2015

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:16 pm

Many thanks for explaining that, David. And belated congratulations from me for your ECF President's Award for Services to Chess!

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