11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

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Mike Truran
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:26 pm

All excellent comments - many thanks to everyone. Lots to think about!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:13 am

Graham Borrowdale wrote: There are a few congresses in the EACU (e.g. Bury St Edmunds was 2 weeks before Newport Pagnell), which a number of players, who play perhaps 2-3 congresses a year, are loyal to.

There's also the Hertford Congress this coming weekend in the same general area. I'm giving that a miss, taking the opportunity to play in Torquay, when, for the first time in a few years, it doesn't clash with 4NCL weekend 1.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:50 am

"I was more surprised by the U135 section entry, which was very disappointing"

By contrast, Eastleigh's Minor (U120) section was bigger than the Open and Major put together...

Kevin Williamson
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Kevin Williamson » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:43 pm

I hope that the congress becomes a regular date in the calendar, although I have to admit to being biased as I live within walking distance of the venue.

Regarding the low entry to the Minor section I wonder just how well known the event was to local players of that strength. Those who already play in the 4NCL are perhaps more likely to check the website and be aware of upcoming congresses. Others may get their information from leaflets picked up at more established congresses which they enter regularly. I’m not sure if 4NCL advertise their congresses in this way? Of course if the event does become a regular then people will return and the word will spread. I hope so.

The event was very well run and the arbiters seemed to have everything under control.

Mike Truran
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Mike Truran » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:43 pm

Kevin

That's a fair point. I often email local clubs and other organisations with the details beforehand, but didn't do so on this occasion.

I remain unconvinced (despite a number of friendly debates with Brendan and others) about the cost/benefit case for hard copy entry form distribution at congresses. When Gerard O'Reilly (Kidlington congress supremo) and I discussed the matter recently when he visited the Witney congress we kicked around the idea of maybe having some sort of special marker on the entry forms sent out for display at other congresses so that we can get some sort of idea about forms sent out vs forms returned.

In the meantime, many thanks for your kind words about the congress. Not sure a couple of the players were quite as helpful as they might have been, but all water under the bridge now......

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:58 pm

Mike Truran wrote:I discussed the matter recently when he visited the Witney congress we kicked around the idea of maybe having some sort of special marker on the entry forms sent out for display at other congresses so that we can get some sort of idea about forms sent out vs forms returned.
Back when I had time to bother with such trivialities, I would do the following:
(1) Post to last year's entries on one colour
(2) Post to congresses on another colour
(3) Post to local clubs in another colour
(4) Allow the website to download the existing form, which I assumed would be in white

Then I gave up posting them anywhere one year, and the number of entries went up. I don't think I've posted an entry form since.

Jo Woollard
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Jo Woollard » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:33 pm

As someone graded a lowly 82,I think U135 is probably too high for a bottom section. Or too high to encourage the lower graded people anyway. If the section was U120 or even less than that then I think more lower graded players may enter. Not to say I haven't entered U135 before, but it's generally as canon fodder for the first 2-3 rounds. Not much fun. I and many others around my grade would, given the choice between different congresses, probably choose one that was on the lower side.

Brendan O'Gorman
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Brendan O'Gorman » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:48 pm

Speculation, I confess, but I suspect there's something about FIDE rated congresses that tend to deter the lower graded player (even if their section isn't FIDE rated). I think I'm right in saying that's been the experience of Sean Hewitt and Adam Raoof. The deterrent factor could be the assumption that ECF gold membership was required for such events, or some such thought as events like that are not for the likes of me.

There's another potential difficulty with replacing an u135 with an u120 section: discouraging 120-134 players who might be reluctant to enter an u175 section (in reality more like u180-190 because of players with absurdly low FIDE ratings that get in because of the u2000 rating ceiling). More grading prizes might help to lessen the problem, but there are a lot of players that won't incur hotel and travel expenses when they have nothing more to hope for than a grading prize.

The traditional solution would be to have four sections, but such events seem to be declining in number, probably because of the extra cost/risk of four sets of prize money. To help Jo and her peers, how about running a fourth section with very small cash prizes and reduced entry fees? More speculation, but I'd guess there's a rough inverse correlation between grade and interest in cash prizes. Moreover, to tiptoe warily into an area of more dangerous speculation, I seem to see more women players in the lower graded sections of congresses. If that's correct, could the ECF justify sponsoring some extra sections like this as part of its aim to encourage greater female participation.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:18 pm

Brendan O'Gorman wrote:More grading prizes might help to lessen the problem, but there are a lot of players that won't incur hotel and travel expenses when they have nothing more to hope for than a grading prize.
That's an interesting opinion, but what if there were no prizes at all? That's the case for the London Chess Classic for players rated under 2050, which is why I shall be "sandbagging" "your" section.

Jo Woollard
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Jo Woollard » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:10 am

Thanks for your comments Brendan, I appreciate that where ever the section bands lay there are probably always going to be people who would be at the bottom of a section who would be put off, unless as you also say, a 4th section is run. To confirm what you say re prize money, I don't give it a single thought and I'm not sure that many U100 do. But to re-iterate how off putting U135 to me is, I have attended for the last two years the Castle Chess events at the Old Swan, where the next 4NCL congress is to be held. I very much liked the venue and Harrogate itself, will I enter next year? - very likely. Will I enter the 4NCL event?, very unlikely, purely because it is U135.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:30 am

Brendan O'Gorman wrote:Speculation, I confess, but I suspect there's something about FIDE rated congresses that tend to deter the lower graded player (even if their section isn't FIDE rated). I think I'm right in saying that's been the experience of Sean Hewitt and Adam Raoof.
I always noticed that e2e4's bottom sections never had the same pull as its higher sections.

On the other hand, the 4NCL Congresses in the North - e2e4s were mostly in the South and so was Milton Keynes - have not had this problem. Or at least, I haven't noticed it in the way I did for e2e4s.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 11th 4NCL FIDE Rated Congress

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:59 am

David Sedgwick wrote: Rather to my surprise, it seems that they haven't, so I'd better not divulge them. I imagine that there will be a press release in a few days giving the players and the draw.
The players and pairings are now on the London Chess Classic site.

http://www.londonchessclassic.com/bko/bko_draw.htm

Draw
In accordance with the Regulations and the draw for colours described above, the pairings are as follows. The players on the left will have White in Game 1 (and in Games 1, 3 and 5 of the Final).


Quarter Final 1: Nigel Short v Daniel Fernandez
Quarter Final 2: Gawain Jones v Jonathan Rowson
Quarter Final 3: Nicholas Pert v David Howell
Quarter Final 4: Jonathan Hawkins v Luke McShane

Semi Final 1: Winner of Quarter Final 4 v Winner of Quarter Final 1
Semi Final 2: Winner of Quarter Final 2 v Winner of Quarter Final 3

Final (6 Games): Winner of Semi Final 2 v Winner of Semi Final 1
Seeding order
Nigel Short ENG GM 2679
Gawain Jones ENG GM 2663
David Howell ENG GM 2655
Luke McShane ENG GM 2655
Jonathan Hawkins ENG GM 2590
Nicholas Pert ENG GM 2566
Jonathan Rowson SCO GM 2565
Daniel Fernandez ENG IM 2450

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