London League results service

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Ian Thompson
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Re: London League results service

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat May 12, 2012 10:15 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Without saying it directly, he seems to imply that 1st January grades will be used regardless.

http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/grad.htm
If a league doesn't report at all till the end of the season its games will still be graded, but they will all go into the second halfyear.
and
How will adjournments and adjudications be treated?
A game which is adjourned (or pending adjudication) at the halfyear cutoff obviously cannot be reported in the interim batch, and it will not go into the first halfyear's grading, even retrospectively. It goes in the second halfyear whatever date the grader attaches to it.
The same will apply to any game from the first halfyear which slips the net for whatever reason and gets reported late.
Which is somewhat at odds with the information on the ECF website:

"In a game list, the opponent’s grade is given with each game. In principle this is his grade at the time of the game: the grade which was, or will be, used in calculating your next grade." (followed by some comments on exceptions for juniors and ungraded players).

Roger de Coverly
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Re: London League results service

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun May 13, 2012 1:01 am

i am led to believe that the rule is
(1) if the results are submitted before half year cutoff that the July grade will be both displayed and used in calculations
(2) that if the results are submitted after the half year cutoff that the January grade will be used and nothing is changed by the date of the game.

It's binary without any judgement, either the system works as described or it doesn't.

The grading and website teams have been reluctant to supply an advance specification. Perhaps wisely, get it to work first and argue with the critics later from a position of strength.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: London League results service

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun May 13, 2012 10:23 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:i am led to believe that the rule is
(1) if the results are submitted before half year cutoff that the July grade will be both displayed and used in calculations
(2) that if the results are submitted after the half year cutoff that the January grade will be used and nothing is changed by the date of the game.
That's my understanding too. It's one of the reasons I didn't understand leagues choosing not to submit their half yearly results.
Roger de Coverly wrote: The grading and website teams have been reluctant to supply an advance specification. Perhaps wisely, get it to work first and argue with the critics later from a position of strength.
I understand that the change, particularly to a rolling 30 game model, was done on the whim of one person with little or no statistical analysis. I'm still in two minds about that change. On the one hand, the most recent 30 games may well be more representative of current playing strength but, on the other, it will lead to more volatility in the grading system.

Richard Haddrell

Re: London League results service

Post by Richard Haddrell » Sun May 13, 2012 10:53 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:i am led to believe that the rule is
(1) if the results are submitted before half year cutoff that the July grade will be both displayed and used in calculations
(2) that if the results are submitted after the half year cutoff that the January grade will be used and nothing is changed by the date of the game.
This is correct.

Angus French
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Re: London League results service

Post by Angus French » Wed May 16, 2012 1:13 pm

John Upham wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:but there still seems to be a lack of cross-tables.
Cross-tables are nearing completion. Not so easy to reproduce! Alan Martin told Brian they would be a challenge to code and he was correct!
FWIW, the Croydon and District Chess League has the same team-ranking scheme as the London League and cross-tables are produced using only SQL statements.

Essentially the work is done in two steps:
1. An INSERT... SELECT statement reports on teams ordered by match points and then game points with the result stored into a ‘Team_Position’ table. The table has an auto-increment identifier column to record a team’s position.
2. A SELECT statement reports on each team and produces the cross-table. The SELECT joins to the previously-populated ‘Team_Position’ table to order teams by their position. It uses sub-selects in the select list to get details of the match against the team in first position, of the match against the team in second position etc.

John Upham
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Re: London League results service

Post by John Upham » Wed May 16, 2012 2:25 pm

Angus,

I had already completed this stage but have yet to deploy the release. The LCL cross-tables include somewhat more information that the Croydon ones and am finalising the formatting.

Thanks for the basic SQL lesson: I'm sure some will find it instructive. Am also fixing the ICAL issues. There are TZ issues to resolve.

Angus French
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Re: London League results service

Post by Angus French » Wed May 16, 2012 2:43 pm

John Upham wrote:The LCL cross-tables include somewhat more information that the Croydon ones
Does it matter? The method I described can still work, can't it?
John Upham wrote:Thanks for the basic SQL lesson: I'm sure some will find it instructive.
I responded because you said that writing the code was challenging and I thought my SQL method was quite neat.

John Upham
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Re: London League results service

Post by John Upham » Wed May 16, 2012 4:58 pm

Angus French wrote:
John Upham wrote:The LCL cross-tables include somewhat more information that the Croydon ones
Does it matter? The method I described can still work, can't it?
John Upham wrote:Thanks for the basic SQL lesson: I'm sure some will find it instructive.
I responded because you said that writing the code was challenging and I thought my SQL method was quite neat.
I will send you your mark out of ten in my end of term report!
Last edited by John Upham on Wed May 16, 2012 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: London League results service

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 16, 2012 5:02 pm

John Upham wrote: Perhaps Carl H. and Mike Bennett would also like to see more SQL tips? Only time will tell.
The financial side of the ECF could do with a few though. It might help them check whether they were getting the right amount of Game Fee from leagues and Congresses and group it both by event and by the type of player it was coming from.

John Upham
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Re: London League results service

Post by John Upham » Wed May 16, 2012 5:24 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote: Perhaps Carl H. and Mike Bennett would also like to see more SQL tips? Only time will tell.
The financial side of the ECF could do with a few though. It might help them check whether they were getting the right amount of Game Fee from leagues and Congresses and group it both by event and by the type of player it was coming from.
Carl,

What are the forum rules regarding the serial hijacking of threads by one person?
Hopefully I'm not the only poster who is finding this repeat behaviour to be very tedious and childish.

Roger,
Why not set-up your own forum about your hobby-horses and invite persons to subscribe?
No doubt we will be forced to hear more of this drivel at the Berkshire CA AGM. I can't wait.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: London League results service

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed May 16, 2012 5:32 pm

John Upham wrote: Why not set-up your own forum about your hobby-horses and invite persons to subscribe?
Two points

(1)I wasn't referring to membership issues, rather the inability of the ECF to prepare and analyse a set of accounts.

(2) Your comment about teaching Carl sql was just being sarky for the sake of it.

John Upham
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Re: London League results service

Post by John Upham » Wed May 16, 2012 5:48 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote: Why not set-up your own forum about your hobby-horses and invite persons to subscribe?
Two points

(1)I wasn't referring to membership issues, rather the inability of the ECF to prepare and analyse a set of accounts.

Does this justify hijacking threads? Hasn't the penny dropped yet that most forum users are fed up with this?

(2) Your comment about teaching Carl sql was just being sarky for the sake of it.
I'm pleased that you do not know my reasons for making that comment. I would not for one minute suggest that either CH or MB require lessons in SQL. The point should be obvious but I recognise it might not have been to yourself.

John Upham
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Re: London League results service

Post by John Upham » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:03 pm

The LCL site has been updated for the new season.

It lives at http://www.londonchess.org.uk/ but I bet you knew that already! :D

I'd be grateful if you could point out the many errors I have made (I know I can rely on this!) and post them here.

John Upham
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Re: London League results service

Post by John Upham » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:01 pm

I have added functionality to the London Chess League to show which players are current members of the ECF and which are not

Go to http://www.londonchess.org.uk

From the RH menu select "Players details"

and these chose either "Players who are ECF members" or "Players who are not ECF members" or something else.

I will roll this out to all League results systems I manage.

After that I will add the above listings at a club level.

The match cards will flag-up who are members etc.

Enjoy! :D

Roger de Coverly
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Re: London League results service

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:18 pm

John Upham wrote: I will roll this out to all League results systems I manage.
How does the link to the ECF membership data work? If it's by grading code, new players will present a problem.

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