Cheating in chess

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:05 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:41 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:54 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:20 am
The second (0858) was headed Congratulations Justinpatzer, you are now a premium member!

The third (0858) was headed Order receipt and began Your membership payment has been successfully processed.
Have you actually renewed your membership?
No, what happened was that when they reinstated me (earlier this year, can't immediately recall when) they gave me a years's Premium Membership.

My vague guess is that they were looking at inactive accounts as you suggested, that their system achieved the same result as it did before (because they've not revised it at all) and so I got barred again: after that who knows, some kind if bug triggering the sending of various emails I've bern sent before.

I guess I'll email again, but really I can't be doing with these people.
My email:
Dear Chess.com Support

Thank you for your mail, one of five I have recently received from you.

You emailed me yesterday to inform me that my account was being closed because I had violated your Fair Play Policy. I emailed back to say that as I had not played on your site in thirteen months, I did not see how that was possible.

Today I received four more emails, within a few minutes of one another. The first of these was the same as the earlier one. The second informed me that I had been awarded Premium Membership. The third informed me that my payment for that membership had been processed. The fourth, again, informed me that my account had been closed.

I do not know what you think you are playing at here but it is patently neither consistent nor acceptable. Once more, can I ask for you for a full and adequate explanation for whatever it is that you are doing, and a proper apology. Can I observe that your site currently informs the public that I have violated your Fair Play Policy and that this claim is untrue.

Yours

Justin Horton
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Andy McCulloch
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Andy McCulloch » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:42 pm

As of about 9.30pm tonight it no longer does. I did look earlier in the day, when it certainly did say your account was closed.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:57 pm

Andy McCulloch wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:42 pm
I did look earlier in the day, when it certainly did say your account was closed.
The account has been reinstated.

https://www.chess.com/member/justinpatzer

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:21 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:57 pm
The account has been reinstated.

https://www.chess.com/member/justinpatzer
But still with unpleasant marks against some of the games, if I read it correctly
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:21 pm
But still with unpleasant marks against some of the games, if I read it correctly
"Lost on time" marks rather than the dreaded cheat marks.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:53 pm

How curious. I have not been favoured with an apology or explanation, but the night is yet young
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

John Upham
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John Upham » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:09 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:21 pm
But still with unpleasant marks against some of the games, if I read it correctly
What are the unpleasant marks and who or what puts them there ?
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Andy Howie
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Andy Howie » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:23 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:28 pm
John,
You would not fall foul of a full Regan test. You may fall foul of one of the platform's detection system; In all fairness I am not sure that there is any way the platforms could avoid such a possibility. However, I think this would be a rare occurrence and I that there is every chance that on explaining the situation (to the provider) the ban would be overturned.
You would probably not even fail the initial screening test. If that did, most titled players would fail the initial screening test and I can say with certainty with the multitudes of screenings I have seen

David Sedgwick
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am

John Upham wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:09 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:21 pm
But still with unpleasant marks against some of the games, if I read it correctly
What are the unpleasant marks and who or what puts them there ?
David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 pm
"Lost on time" marks rather than the dreaded cheat marks.

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:17 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am
John Upham wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:09 pm
NickFaulks wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:21 pm
But still with unpleasant marks against some of the games, if I read it correctly
What are the unpleasant marks and who or what puts them there ?
David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 pm
"Lost on time" marks rather than the dreaded cheat marks.
I think it fair to describe them as damaging. Anyone seeing them would assume that Justin has started several games, played a few moves, and then given up. I wouldn't want to play correspondence chess-like games against someone with a habit of doing that. (I assume they weren't really lost on time, but forfeited as a result of Justin's ban.)

I see that a couple of Justin's opponents have been banned for violating fair play policies. I wonder if they have also been the victims of chess.com's deficient computer assistance detection processes?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:35 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:17 am
David Sedgwick wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:51 am
John Upham wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:09 pm
What are the unpleasant marks and who or what puts them there ?
l
David Sedgwick wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 pm
"Lost on time" marks rather than the dreaded cheat marks.
I think it fair to describe them as damaging. Anyone seeing them would assume that Justin has started several games, played a few moves, and then given up. I wouldn't want to play correspondence chess-like games against someone with a habit of doing that. (I assume they weren't really lost on time, but forfeited as a result of Justin's ban.)
Yes, that's pretty galling, though probably not too important in practice given that I have no serious intention of playing on that site again.

I've not yet received any explanation or apology, by the way, though obviously it's too soon to conclude that I won't.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

John Upham
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17-year-old European Chess Champion gets 2-year ban for cheating

Post by John Upham » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:50 pm

17-year-old European Chess Champion gets 2-year ban for cheating :shock:

See https://chess24.com/en/read/news/17-yea ... r-cheating
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:35 am

"17-year-old European Chess Champion gets 2-year ban for cheating"

Interesting to see the different approaches to the problem by different countries.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Matthew Turner » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:46 am

Kevin,
I think it is true that in general countries in continental Europe are looking at stiffer penalties for online cheating, compared to England. However, this is an OTB case and I am not sure that the ECF would handle it significantly differently. On a superficial reading, the Polish Federation's approach seems broadly similar to Chess Scotland policy.

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:52 am

Matthew Turner wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:46 am
However, this is an OTB case and I am not sure that the ECF would handle it significantly differently.
Has the ECF ever done anything so far? As far as I'm aware some organisers have caught players cheating. Neither the organisers nor the ECF has ever named the players involved or disclosed any sanctions applied, other than disqualification from the event the player was caught cheating at.

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