How Come This Player Has Joined English Fed?

[John Reyes]

I expect the ECF will be required to tell the Government what they spent the money on and to show that something worthwhile resulted. Spending some of it on reducing the membership fees of amateur players who play chess as a hobby would be unlikely to be seen as money well spent.

It would be spending the money on supporting the England international teams. The difference would be that it would no longer be requiring the funds raised by memberhip charges to be spent in this manner. At the very least, the ECF should be asked whether it will cap the ever increasing demands made on membership funds by the International Director.

There is a AGM coming up in Manchester???

[Chris Goodall]

At the very least, the ECF should be asked whether it will cap the ever increasing demands made on membership funds by the International Director.

I think the bigger issue there is whether the six-figure sum Malcolm settles on as the new International budget has a sunset clause that will return it to a normal level once Keir Starmer yoinks the grant away again. Or whether for commercial reasons to be invented later, it has to stay at £150k and the membership fees have to double to make up the shortfall.

[Matt Mackenzie]

At the very least, the ECF should be asked whether it will cap the ever increasing demands made on membership funds by the International Director.

I think the bigger issue there is whether the six-figure sum Malcolm settles on as the new International budget has a sunset clause that will return it to a normal level once Keir Starmer yoinks the grant away again. Or whether for commercial reasons to be invented later, it has to stay at £150k and the membership fees have to double to make up the shortfall.

You do know who his Chancellor is very likely to be, right?

I know she is pledging to run a tight ship and all that, but a soft spot for chess might not do our game any harm.

[Ian Jamieson]

At the very least, the ECF should be asked whether it will cap the ever increasing demands made on membership funds by the International Director.

I think the bigger issue there is whether the six-figure sum Malcolm settles on as the new International budget has a sunset clause that will return it to a normal level once Keir Starmer yoinks the grant away again. Or whether for commercial reasons to be invented later, it has to stay at £150k and the membership fees have to double to make up the shortfall.

You do know who his Chancellor is very likely to be, right?

I know she is pledging to run a tight ship and all that, but a soft spot for chess might not do our game any harm.

On the other hand she might make the game an example of how tight a ship she is running.

[Chris Goodall]

At the very least, the ECF should be asked whether it will cap the ever increasing demands made on membership funds by the International Director.

I think the bigger issue there is whether the six-figure sum Malcolm settles on as the new International budget has a sunset clause that will return it to a normal level once Keir Starmer yoinks the grant away again. Or whether for commercial reasons to be invented later, it has to stay at £150k and the membership fees have to double to make up the shortfall.

You do know who his Chancellor is very likely to be, right?

I know she is pledging to run a tight ship and all that, but a soft spot for chess might not do our game any harm.

I do, and I'm sure Mal 'n' Dom were quick to point out to Rishi the flak she'll get from her backbenchers if she plays favourites.

[Andrew Zigmond]

Definitely could go back... all it would need is a grader to do it really... depends if enough people want it...

Apologies for any typos as I am at my son's cricket ..

I was one of those pushing for a return to ECF grading a few years back. Especially when we realised the difficulty in running the old grading system.

Your biggest stumbling block is that players want grading. The County teams are ECF rated and I cannot see the Yorkshire league going back. There is also the problem of myself, who is completely against such a decision and presently sits on the YCA as Deputy President. So over my dead body.

Decisions not to do grading locally are made by local associations. Some Yorkshire leagues went ECF anyway, when we still had the YCA grading. A problem in going back to YCA with the Huddersfield & District CA is that I am the currently President and such a move will be done over my... You get the idea and I am not alone on this. There is no appetite to change this anyway.

If you look at the Calderdale league, they are not interested either and members may be hostile (guess who is Chair next year?).

In summary, please just pay up.

What Steve said. I fought hard to get rid of the separate Yorkshire grading list and have never regretted it. By the time the last grader retired and the list was formally abolished it had become an absolute joke with some events qualifying for both lists while others only featured on one and not the other. The vast majority of players just wanted to be part of one standardised national list and were sick of being (as one person put it at an AGM) the "independent republic of Yorkshire" due to a twenty year old dispute nobody could remember the details of.

Those days are gone and we are not looking back.

[Stephen Westmoreland]

Well said Andrew. As I put it at one AGM, we need to be one family across England.

[Mark Howitt]

Quick post here... going to limit my chess posts...

Say you're a talented player with NO OR LITTLE MONEY...

I'm sure there are quite a few out there.... including GMS

You are told... you can play otb chess (and to me it seems the clubs have to like you to play you personally in some cases at least)... but u have to pay FEE UPFRONT...

Well if they've got no money they CAN'T pay it and if they've got little money... well that money should go on food etc...

With the old system no fee was demanded upfront.

I wouldn't mind it being natonal grading with no fee being demanded upfront as it seems quite a large proportion of the fee goes on paying for admin staff and 'international team'...

Final quick point...

Even if some people in control of chess clubs in Yorks think it is good for them doesn't mean it is good for everyone! People with no/little money may often not say they have none... they'll just not play otb chess...

Even for me who's played since 4... online is much cheaper and easier...

[Roger Lancaster]

It seems to me unfortunate that this thread was created, particularly with that subject-line, as it might give the impression to Nikita Vitiugov (and anyone else contemplating changing FIDE allegiance) that he is unwelcome in this country. While there's probably a small minority of this opinion, I believe most will accord Vitiugov the same welcome that generally applies in other sports - among present-day examples, footballer Declan Rice (played for Ireland, then England) and cricketer Jofre Archer (West Indies, then England). In the unlikely event that Vitiugov ever gets around to reading these posts, I hope he'll take on board that the "How come?" sentiment was voiced by someone who doesn't appear to be a current or recent member of the English Chess Federation.

[Stephen Westmoreland]

The path for Mark would be to become a member of a club, gain a position of responsibility and use a vote at an association to take a course of action. Dare I say that he could take out ECF membership and lobby his membership rep or even take part in the current ECF consultation on fees?

From all the members here, Nikita Vitiugov appears very welcome. It is just one unaffiliated individual (that possibly lives under a bridge), who does not play, belong to a club or association (and really should not be posting this twaddle). Yet again it boils down to not paying £18 and freebies, after previous boasts of wealth.

John U has made some very relevant posts on this and reputation on other threads.

[Mark Howitt]

Look it's just mad...

I have played HUNDREDS of online games since I last played (competitive... have played 'none competitive') otb in 2008...

Does not play lols...

Been playing since 4...

I think people need to look outside echo chambers a bit...

How about...

You go out to a street or pub... ask if right for a Russian to possibly play for an England team or represent England...

And...

Ask the fact that despite lots of people knowing how to play chess and playing online etc in UK... WHY there are relatively few competitive otb players...

Not just saying people are BAD for not playing otb...

Surreal world... I may be playing otb again though...

[Stephen Westmoreland]

It is better to fight the fight on the inside. I look forwards to the debate at various AGMs, with you as a fellow ECF member. In particular your proposed solution on fees that I am likely to torpedo.

Better just to cease the endless debate and just play some chess. I will notify the grading panel, if you are appearing locally.

[Andrew Zigmond]

One thing that has been very telling, at least in Yorkshire, is that those players who say that ECF fees are a deterrent etc and that we would attract a lot more players otherwise have absolutely no track record in building successful clubs or nurturing new talent. On the other hand those organisers who are in favour of the national membership scheme are the ones who are increasing their club membership.

[Peter Ackley]

Mark

I'm sure the one of the numerous racist groups within this country would be willing to accept you as a member - please can you take your racism there rather than this forum (for example "shouldn't be allowed to take a true English place in team events" - your own post 29 August 2023) and I join the large number of people on this forum who welcome him.

ECF membership is not a barrier to people playing chess. It is only a barrier to playing chess under the auspices of the ECF. You are free (and in your case I bet the word "free" gets you really excited) to play non-ECF chess to your hearts content (note: it's "non", not "none" as you frequently get wrong in your posts and on your own blog). You can take your own chess board to any location and play chess at any time limit against anyone who wishes to sit opposite you; it just won't sit under the ECF. People without financial means (or tightwads like yourself, since you have previously told us how wealthy you are compared to the wider populous) can still play chess as much as they want.

And you also (and I paraphrase) ask what the ECF does for you - the answer is they do everything which is detailed on their website. The services are there; it's not the ECF's fault if you choose not to take the ECF up on them. It's like asking for a discount on your road tax because you didn't drive on every road...

And, whilst I'm at it, online chess is not free. You need a computer, or a phone. You need an internet connection. I play for Chesterfield. If I played a whole season my fee (excluding things like drinks at the venue; not something that would really affect you) would be £28 - £10 club membership, £18 bronze membership). Bet a computer/phone and broadband connection costs more than this...

As a late member of Yorkshire (2016) I applaud the work people put into maintaining their own grading list however, as other posters have stated, it served a need which ceased to exist and actually created grading-anomalous situations which affected many people (similar to those affecting many players today with ECF and FIDE ratings). With leagues starting to opt-out, and a lack of support for the previous Yorkshire grader, it died out with minimal impact. Of course please feel free (again your favourite word "free") to try to restart it. Aside, though, from the lack of support from leagues and the county the main barrier is who is going to run it? It's a lot of work and I doubt you would volunteer, or volunteer to pay anyone.

Why this post? The reason we have chess today is because previous generations invested in the future as well as the present. Take the free chessboards you used as a junior in the park. The people who put them there saw them as an investment, rather than just looking at the money going "me, me, me". The reasons we have tournaments is because organisers give up their time and money to run them (I can speak from experience; I co-run Doncaster each year). The reasons many junior clubs exist is because people volunteer in schools. The reasons juniors are able to play is because parents run them around. The world works because thankfully, unlike yourself, the world is full of altruistic people who benefit others. Yet all your posts care about is yourself. What can maximise your benefit regardless of the impact on others.

And chess is not expensive. Look at Bridge clubs - on average £3.50 per week with an annual fee. Or golf clubs - £1k a year for my local. I play for my local pool team - that's £1 a week, £38 a season. There's not much else you can do at a competitive level for the same price. In many sports, also, the annual fee contains a percentage which is paid to the governing body which goes, among other things, to the sponsorship of juniors and "elite" players.

Pay up.

Peter

[David Teague]

Very well put.

He'll think it's "surreal".