129th Varsity Match.

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Richard Bates
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:50 am

David Moskovic wrote: Eddie came to Cambridge in 2000, so unlikely he was playing in the 98/99 season; do you have some evidence of this, or are you just making things up as you go along?
Facts are a moveable feast ;)

http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/9899/matchbcf.htm

LozCooper

Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by LozCooper » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:06 am

[quote="David Moskovic"]

btw my name is "Moskovic" -- it's not that hard to spell if you make a little effort.

http://www.blackpoolchess.org.uk/images ... 1-open.pdf

I'm used to having my name spelt incorrectly, even when I enter online :oops:

David Moskovic
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by David Moskovic » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:27 am

yep fair enough then. I assume he must have been eligible under the rules, or he would have lost by default.

David Moskovic
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by David Moskovic » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:34 am

in fact the whole story is that Eddie was in 6th form college in cambridge, and living in the city at that time, and hence indisputably eligible to play under any reasonable rules.

Edward Dearing
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Edward Dearing » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:34 pm

If I may interject, I did play for Cambridge in 2000 in the county championship, and it was a bit controversial, as I was registered with Writtle (in Essex) and had always played for Essex in the past (but had not done so that season). That said, I had moved schools for sixth form (new school was in Cambridge), and I was about to start Uni in Cambridge, so I did have some connection with the county. I was a bit worried sceptical myself, but someone checked at the time and confirmed that I was eligible. In any case I doubt it influenced the result.

That said, I think the broader point here is that some players feel that the Cambridge team lack sufficient connection to Cambridgeshire, and in fact went so far as to arrange for the rules to be changed to ensure that Cambridge graduates could not continue to play for their county. I consider this to be a grotesque abuse of position, that put petty competitiveness ahead of the interests of county chess.

The people who petitioned for the change in rules failed to consider two points (or perhaps they were fully aware of these points, but chose to disregard them).

Firstly, they failed to consider why, even years later, graduates continued to turn out for Cambridge. The answer (which is the same as for Cambridge Uni 4NCL team) is that the Cambridge team enjoyed an enormous sense of community. Very few juniors enjoy county chess, but the Cambridge county team was made up of players who all liked and respected each other (socially, as well as in chess terms), and who would also choose to play together in other contexts (Varsity being one context, although note that most of us also played together on the international circuit as teenagers; there is also the 4NCL team). There was no incentive for graduates to continue to play beyond supporting their team, and faced with an outright ban most players simply abandoned county chess. In short, to impose a continuing connection obligation on players completely disregards the significance of a team's sense of community.

Secondly, they failed to consider the implications for county chess generally. The point has been made that Cambridge could turn out a team with the likes of Mestel, Parker, Turner, Harriot Hunt, myself, Karl, Ferguson (the list goes on...). Changing the rules effectively banned these players from participating in county chess, which doesn't benefit county chess at all. A strong junior who is guaranteed a match against a GM or IM would usually choose to play. But faced with a random 170...why bother? Ditto for most IMs and GMs who reside in other counties.

Driving titled players out of county championship has only served to undermine the event and to reinforce the significance of the 4NCL (just compare the coverage that each event enjoys).

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. It's probably too late to reverse the decision; it's just a shame that nobody bothered to ask the Cambridge team before changing the rules and effectively banning us from county chess.

Regards,
Eddie

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Ben Purton
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Ben Purton » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:25 pm

Looking at the games , Oxford sadly deserved to win :(, Robo was playing for Cambridge so Sharks of course support them.

Secondly the rules for county chess are not that "Harsh" in my view. You can play a club match and then 2 months later your eligible for that season etc.
[i]I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night[/i] - Bill Hicks

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:24 pm

(Sees David Moskovic's first post and laughs for a long time. Thanks to "Kreu" for arranging this).

I apologise for misspelling David's name and for not knowing that he lived in Cambridge for three years after his graduation. I think I made it clear that I wasn't very sure about his particular position.

My other facts seem to be correct. I am not sure whether Eddie would have been eligible in 1998/9 by virtue of attending sixth form college (but living in Essex): twelve years later probably no one has the exact rules to hand. But to answer his broader point, generally a county team should consist of people with some contemporary, as opposed to historic, connection with the county *. The argument that changing the rules destroyed the basis of the previous cambridge team seems to be neither here nor there. As Ben says they could still have remained eligible by playing the odd club game in the county but that was too much, apparently. Perhaps the connection and mutual passion for playing county chess for Cambridge was not as strong as they had thought? :lol:

There is no objection to there being a Cambridge team based on past graduates with close historic ties but not contemporarily based in Cambridge. But the proper place for such a team is the 4NCL. As I said already.

* You might well ask why the coincidence of birth should entitle one to play for a county indefinitely. Let's leave that discussion to another thread.

Peter Roberson
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Peter Roberson » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:51 pm

Ben Purton wrote:Looking at the games , Oxford sadly deserved to win :(, Robo was playing for Cambridge so Sharks of course support them.
Not sure if turning up plagued by insomnia and blundering a queen really counts as 'playing', but thanks for the support. 'Twas a pretty depressing loss from our point of view.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:07 pm

Peter Roberson wrote:Not sure if turning up plagued by insomnia and blundering a queen really counts as 'playing', but thanks for the support. 'Twas a pretty depressing loss from our point of view.
It is my opinion that Oxford were better prepared since they'd had competition practice in the BUCA event the previous weekend, and also had 4NCL and league chess experience. Their squad had played quite a bit of chess. By contrast, other than yourself and Gabor in the 4NCL, how much chess had the rest of your team played in the month prior to the tournament?

Richard Bates
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:31 pm

Edward Dearing wrote: A strong junior who is guaranteed a match against a GM or IM would usually choose to play. But faced with a random 170...why bother? Ditto for most IMs and GMs who reside in other counties.

Regards,
Eddie
Can't be a particularly strong junior to be faced with the prospect of a random 170. They'd probably have to be playing in the U180 competition for a start! ;)

Still could do with this supposed weakness in county chess materialising. I might actually be able to win more than the odd game! :evil:

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:35 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Edward Dearing wrote: A strong junior who is guaranteed a match against a GM or IM would usually choose to play. But faced with a random 170...why bother? Ditto for most IMs and GMs who reside in other counties.

Regards,
Eddie
Can't be a particularly strong junior to be faced with the prospect of a random 170. They'd probably have to be playing in the U180 competition for a start! ;)

Still could do with this supposed weakness in county chess materialising. I might actually be able to win more than the odd game! :evil:
You could move to the South-West; you'd see plenty of 170s playing first-team county matches round here. :)

Richard Bates
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Richard Bates » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:39 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:
Edward Dearing wrote: A strong junior who is guaranteed a match against a GM or IM would usually choose to play. But faced with a random 170...why bother? Ditto for most IMs and GMs who reside in other counties.

Regards,
Eddie
Can't be a particularly strong junior to be faced with the prospect of a random 170. They'd probably have to be playing in the U180 competition for a start! ;)

Still could do with this supposed weakness in county chess materialising. I might actually be able to win more than the odd game! :evil:
You could move to the South-West; you'd see plenty of 170s playing first-team county matches round here. :)
Yeah but Jack, you may play like a 170 at times, but you are capable of playing a lot better that that :D

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Richard Bates wrote: Yeah but Jack, you may play like a 170 at times, but you are capable of playing a lot better that that :D
Arf, arf.

See here for what WECU first teams are like.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:48 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Richard Bates wrote: Yeah but Jack, you may play like a 170 at times, but you are capable of playing a lot better that that :D
Arf, arf.

See here for what WECU first teams are like.
At the risk of taking this thread wildly off-topic, what was going on with the board order - particularly board 2 - of the Hampshire v Devon 2nds match?

Not sure how Devon lost so brutally in the 1sts match on the corresponding date. :shock:

Somerset seems quite strong; it compares favourably with Warwickshire (MCCU 2) and would be an even match for Staffordshire (MCCU 1) too.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 129th Varsity Match.

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:09 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Richard Bates wrote: Yeah but Jack, you may play like a 170 at times, but you are capable of playing a lot better that that :D
Arf, arf.

See here for what WECU first teams are like.
At the risk of taking this thread wildly off-topic, what was going on with the board order - particularly board 2 - of the Hampshire v Devon 2nds match?
Board 2 is a transcription error: his actual grade is 138. Similarly, board 3 is graded 135.

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