Why men are higher rated than women

[Matt Bridgeman]

I have just looked at the English Bridge Union grading list which is 'rolling' and changes daily. There is one woman (at 67th) in the top hundred.

Two in the ECF top 100 for ENG players. Jovanka at 42 and Harriet at 71. If you include all players with games within the scope of ECF grades or ratings, Yifan Hou is at 98.

Being the top board player in the annual Oxford v Cambridge match is a measure of something. Three in the last twenty years. Two of the above plus Rush Sheldon.

I’ve heard Jovanka Houska describe herself in commentary as probably the only professional female chess player in English chess. I think a number of players with the potential to at least match her choose higher education and careers as sounder financial options. You’d have to wonder if the core of top English male players approaching middle/late middle age who did bravely make a career out of chess are something of a dying breed.

[Paul Habershon]

Ratings in the list of the Association of British Scrabble Players don't provide a direct comparison with English chess and bridge lists. The ABSP includes foreign members too, who have played sufficient games.


However, although there are proportionately many more women in Scrabble than in chess, there are only seven in the top 100. The top woman is a Scot at 29th. Of the seven, the highest of three female English players is 32nd.

There is no denying the male dominance, yet we still struggle for an explanation.

[jholyhead]

The article contains a fair bit of nonsense - particularly, as usual, the quasi-statistical stuff - but some serious analysis is being done. I have only just discovered this.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10 ... BtVCUlFW6Y

Wei Ji Ma is Professor of Psychology and Neural Science at New York University and has a background in Maths and Physics - he's not some social justice blogger doing maths on the back of a beer coaster.

The statistical work in his original Chessbase article was sound, although others have since pointed out that you don't necessarily get the same conclusion if you repeat the experiment with player populations from countries other than India.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Looking at the Hendon site updated yesterday, it seems English female poker is actually pretty healthy. On the World top 100 all-time money list England has the world number 7 (Liv Boeree), 14th (Victoria Coren Mitchell), 29th (Lucy Rokach), 87th (Xuyen Pham), 89th (Lynne Beaumont) and 95th (Tiffany Williamson). A combined earning in just the official competitions of around 10 million dollars. Liv Boeree is ranked 19th on the British combined men and woman all-time list. In world poker there's a lot of examples of female players outshining men, such as when 18 year old Annette Obrestad won 1 million pounds sterling and a World Series of Poker bracelet in the top European event of 2007. Ironically Obrestad is Norwegian and is rated nationally as their 2nd strongest player of all-time, (male or female).

I think if there was actually any money in the game female players would get on the map in chess, just as they are in poker.

[Roland Kensdale]

A lot of statistics and analysis of female participation in chess in different countries, summarized by a strong player:

https://www.davidsmerdon.com/?p=2075

[NickFaulks]

Ironically Obrestad is Norwegian and is rated nationally as their 2nd strongest player of all-time, (male or female).

Why is that ironic? Sorry, I just don't understand.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Ironically Obrestad is Norwegian and is rated nationally as their 2nd strongest player of all-time, (male or female).

Why is that ironic? Sorry, I just don't understand.

Pratt!

[NickFaulks]

Ironically Obrestad is Norwegian and is rated nationally as their 2nd strongest player of all-time, (male or female).

Why is that ironic? Sorry, I just don't understand.

Pratt!

I still don't understand.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Why is that ironic? Sorry, I just don't understand.

Pratt!

I still don't understand.

You could say contrary to what was expected the number two poker player in Norway is a woman, whereas their best female chess player is ranked 109th on their active ranking list, (2197).
Or better - contrary to what was expected arguably the best poker player in Magnus' Norway is Annette Obrestad.

[Chris Goodall]

Why are men higher rated than women? Tall Poppy Syndrome. Women suffer a social penalty for succeeding in a way that other women perceive as a threat. Making that final leap from playing in women's tournaments to playing in mixed tournaments, means that all the women playing in the women's tournaments now hate you. Top Woman is a prestigious title; Top Woman Other Than That One Woman Who Thinks She's Better Than Us is not.

Male chess players aren't very sociable anyway, so if the same thing happens in men's chess, they don't care. Some even revel in the role of pantomime villain.

[Neil Graham]

Some even revel in the role of pantomime villain.

Oh no they don't!

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Oh no they don't!"

all right then...

Oh yes they do!

[MJMcCready]

I suppose it’s simply a stereotype that is true until it’s not. I remember in heavyweight boxing, probably between 1956 and 2000, there was a strong stereotype that white men made inferior heavyweight fighters. There was the term ‘the Great White Hope’ coined. And I’m sure many so called forum experts came up with reams of reasons from genetics upwards why it was so. But now it’s seen as clearly just a myth, as hulking fighters from the East such as the Klitschko brothers and Lancashire’s own Tyson Fury have reasonable arguments to being a least amongst the best heavyweights of all-time. So perhaps in chess it’s just a case of waiting. In the future there might be a lot of woman in the world top 100.

Not forgetting Rocky Marciano of course. If chess is still a man's world or a male sport for want of a better term then you would expect men to be dominant overall. The real tragedy is that it would be better overall if more women played...if late at night, you value female company over the accompaniment of a pile of dusty chess books that is.

[Matt Bridgeman]

I suppose it’s simply a stereotype that is true until it’s not. I remember in heavyweight boxing, probably between 1956 and 2000, there was a strong stereotype that white men made inferior heavyweight fighters. There was the term ‘the Great White Hope’ coined. And I’m sure many so called forum experts came up with reams of reasons from genetics upwards why it was so. But now it’s seen as clearly just a myth, as hulking fighters from the East such as the Klitschko brothers and Lancashire’s own Tyson Fury have reasonable arguments to being a least amongst the best heavyweights of all-time. So perhaps in chess it’s just a case of waiting. In the future there might be a lot of woman in the world top 100.

Not forgetting Rocky Marciano of course. If chess is still a man's world or a male sport for want of a better term then you would expect men to be dominant overall. The real tragedy is that it would be better overall if more women played...if late at night, you value female company over the accompaniment of a pile of dusty chess books that is.

I didn’t forget Rocky, who retired in 1956! Lol

The top American female boxer, Claressa Shields, recently migrated to MMA, where she feels she will be better compensated. She had this to say this week, ‘Boxing is sexist. I’m still put on a back burner to men who haven’t accomplished anything close to what I’ve achieved. It’s sexist with the opportunities we’re given. It’s sexist with the tv time. It’s sexist with how much we get paid.’

It’s possible to point out incidents of sexism in English chess quite easily. It was noticeable in the summer with the coverage of the Online British Blitz Championship. Of the substantial commentary on the event available, only really Natasha Regan gave the woman’s side of the event a proper look, (while Matthew Sadler had technical difficulties). Simon Williams said point blank he didn’t have time look at it. Adam C Taylor gave it a quick look over as a bit of a filler.

[jholyhead]

It’s possible to point out incidents of sexism in English chess quite easily. It was noticeable in the summer with the coverage of the Online British Blitz Championship. Of the substantial commentary on the event available, only really Natasha Regan gave the woman’s side of the event a proper look, (while Matthew Sadler had technical difficulties). Simon Williams said point blank he didn’t have time look at it. Adam C Taylor gave it a quick look over as a bit of a filler.

It will be interesting to see if they repeat the slight in the upcoming British Online. The Women's Championship Finals are scheduled in the 1pm slot, and the Open Championship is scheduled in the 7pm slot. Will there be commentary for both, or will they just pretend the Women's finals aren't happening at all?