When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

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When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Poll ended at Sat Feb 08, 2025 7:33 pm

Within the past year
1
4%
Within the past five years
0
No votes
Within the past ten years
1
4%
Within the past twenty years
0
No votes
Within the past thirty years
1
4%
I might have done once but it is so long ago I really can't remember
16
59%
I just pretend that I did once 37 years ago in order to have a good rant on ecforum
0
No votes
I'm as ornery as a UKIP voter after twelve pints and no lefty arbiter is taking away my promotion rights
1
4%
I didn't, but I just said "queen" and moved the pawn like a queen
0
No votes
I didn't, but I used two pawns on the same square instead
0
No votes
Never
7
26%
 
Total votes: 27

Paul Cooksey
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:19 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2025 9:56 am
Paul Cooksey wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:31 pm
It does seem a useful answer given the situation is rare. Useful because I assume the intent of the poll is to establish that players do indeed know an upturned rook is a queen so the arbiters guidance can be updated.
Arbiter's advice does not need to be updated. The practise is simply illegal - you entirely failed to establish anywhere in the Laws any freedom in declaring a rook anything other than a rook.
Common law is a thing, especially in England but not only in England. It always predates written law. Players have been using an upside down rook as a queen for long enough for that to be established as a rule. If the FIDE Laws do not correctly document the rules of chess, the fault is with the FIDE Laws.

Ian made a good point in another thread it is difficult to document the rules. For example, the FIDE Laws give examples of pieces but they do not define them. I'm happy to accept it is sometimes better to leave something to common sense. Common sense is to allow players to play where there is no ambiguity.

Rules can be changed of course. But this one has not. Arbiters agreeing a rule should exist does not make it a law. The upturned rook isn't a very important rule, it is rarely necessary. But the principles of how laws are created are quite important at the moment as chess officials become ever more interventionist.

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Ian Thompson
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:36 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:14 am
What then is the advice to players when a second queen is simply not available?
  1. Call the arbiter and let them decide what to do - that's their job.
  2. If there is no arbiter, agree something with your opponent - there is no possibility of an arbiter saying whatever you decide is not allowed.

NickFaulks
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:38 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:36 am
Call the arbiter and let them decide what to do - that's their job.
No, their job was to ensure that this circumstance did not arise.
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Stephen Westmoreland
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by Stephen Westmoreland » Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:01 pm

I was floor walking at a junior tournament when a player put an upside down rook on the board. I smiled and helpfully put it the right way up, stating the rook was the wrong way up. There was a look of outrage of the kid's face, as I sauntered away and collapsed laughing round the corner.
Last edited by Stephen Westmoreland on Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Lettington
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by David Lettington » Sun Jan 12, 2025 4:22 pm

Stephen Westmoreland wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:01 pm
I was floor walking at a junior tournament when a player put an upside down room on the board.
That's exactly what happened in Lionel Richie's 'Dancing On The Ceiling'.

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John Upham
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by John Upham » Sun Jan 12, 2025 4:47 pm

Stephen Westmoreland wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:01 pm
I was floor walking at a junior tournament when a player put an upside down room on the board.
Was it this one by any chance?


073-rebecca-and-rob1.jpg
An upside down rook
073-rebecca-and-rob1.jpg (544.59 KiB) Viewed 1026 times
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Stephen Westmoreland
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by Stephen Westmoreland » Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:50 pm

I am really struggling with my phone (autocorrect in particular) and writing, after my PC broke! Glad to have provided a giggle though.
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Richard Thursby
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Re: When was the last time you used a upside down rook to represent a queen in a rated game of chess

Post by Richard Thursby » Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:47 pm

Since I returned to chess post pandemic late last year, I have observed it is much more common for sets to have two queens of each colour, although the one occasion I needed one there wasn't one to hand, but the arbiter was nearby (probably because my game was going on so long it had delayed the start of the next round) to hand me one from another board.

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