French Chess Federation investigates cheating players

[Alan Walton]

Er, no. I believe passionately that people make mistakes, and should be punished if caught, show contrition in an ideal world, then be forgiven, and then move on. None of us are perfect.

If you get caught and proven guilty then naming them is fully justifiable. To deliberately cheat at chess isn't really a "mistake" it takes calculation and premeditation to do this, these type of players need to be exposed for the benefit of the masses. The only proviso could be around junior's being caught but then it all depends on the actual facts of the case

[Adam Raoof]

Er, no. I believe passionately that people make mistakes, and should be punished if caught, show contrition in an ideal world, then be forgiven, and then move on. None of us are perfect.

If you get caught and proven guilty then naming them is fully justifiable. To deliberately cheat at chess isn't really a "mistake" it takes calculation and premeditation to do this, these type of players need to be exposed for the benefit of the masses. The only proviso could be around junior's being caught but then it all depends on the actual facts of the case

No, it would always be morally wrong, though legally acceptable, to name juniors.

Is a player who plays a move, then immediately takes it back and plays another move really guilty of calculation and premeditation?

[Mick Norris]

I think juniors cheating is even worse than adults, and would question where the idea came from - whoever has coached the junior has surely got some questions to answer (and the ECF needs to consider this if the coach is ECF accredited)

I can't agree with this. All cheating is wrong, but kids do stupid things, adults have fewer excuses. I think, on reflection, you will agree that an adult who resorts to cheating is far more cynical and the crime more likely to be premeditated.

As a parent, I already have the problem of the media glorifying cheating in overpaid and badly behaved sportsmen, most notably premiership footballers (whose sons bring this into schools football, diving and play acting)

Adults do stupid things, but stamping it out in juniors is much more serious and I think that by the time they enter secondary school, they should realise that cheating is wrong

[Mick Norris]

When I first started organising there was a body called the London Chess Association, which brought together organisers to avoid clashes between events, and which also informally exchanged information about sandbaggers and occasionally players who misbehaved. However publishing names is not something we ever did.

Why don't the ECF set up an organisers group to allow us to give and receive this information?

[Adam Raoof]

Adults do stupid things, but stamping it out in juniors is much more serious and I think that by the time they enter secondary school, they should realise that cheating is wrong

I do fundamentally agree with you. But I think that it is possible to achieve this, and rehabilitate offenders, without naming them.

There is now an organisers blog and mailing list at http://englishchessorganisers.blogspot.com/, but any exchange of information about players is always going to be informal, because once you have to satisfy the burden of proof then most accusations will disappear for fear of legal action.

[Alan Walton]

Er, no. I believe passionately that people make mistakes, and should be punished if caught, show contrition in an ideal world, then be forgiven, and then move on. None of us are perfect.

If you get caught and proven guilty then naming them is fully justifiable. To deliberately cheat at chess isn't really a "mistake" it takes calculation and premeditation to do this, these type of players need to be exposed for the benefit of the masses. The only proviso could be around junior's being caught but then it all depends on the actual facts of the case

No, it would always be morally wrong, though legally acceptable, to name juniors.

Is a player who plays a move, then immediately takes it back and plays another move really guilty of calculation and premeditation?

Obviously there are different types of cheating, and that will determine what the punishment should be, I believe anybody who uses outside assistance, either being computers or other players to influence what move to make is the most serious crime and should have lengthy bans and named, a system similar to the Australian federation who publishes players names on their website is a possible way to go.

Regarding the example you gave, then this should a strong repremand with the instant loss of the game and maybe only expulsion from the current event, I admit that this type isn't premeditation but just an error of judgement (I do remember this happening at the IOM a few years ago by a 2700 Ukranian GM)

[Adam Raoof]

...I believe anybody who uses outside assistance, either being computers or other players to influence what move to make is the most serious crime and should have lengthy bans and named..

Does that include adjournments?



Sorry, ignore me, I couldn't resist that. I agree with your sentiments.

Regarding the example you gave, then this should a strong repremand with the instant loss of the game and maybe only expulsion from the current event, I admit that this type isn't premeditation but just an error of judgement (I do remember this happening at the IOM a few years ago by a 2700 Ukranian GM)

Yes, and I am sure I can think of at least two titled players who have been caught 'changing their mind', were not punished at the time, and who are still playing in tournaments!

[Alan Walton]

http://www.auschess.org.au/ACFBannedPlayers.html

Here is the Australian's Federation link about banned players, admittedly it looks rather blank at the moment, but when I last looked there were players on this list, so perhaps everybody is behaving at the moment

[David Sedgwick]

What was the response of the parents?

An entirely appropriate one, in my view.

Has the junior received any formal chess coaching?

I have no idea, but I'm as sure as I can be that he wasn't put up to it. A trained cheat would have been harder to detect.

I think juniors cheating is even worse than adults

I'm with Adam on this. I agree with your latest comment that children of secondary school age are old enough to take responsibility for their actions. Nevertheless, most of us did stupid things when we were teenagers.

This will be my last post on the specific episode. The ECF has dealt with the matter and in my view it's time to me on to the general issue of how to prevent, detect and punish any cheating there may be in English chess. Andrew Farthing has confirmed that it's an additional item in his ever growing in-tray.

One point I do wish to make is that in my experience standards of conduct amongst junior players are in general higher, not lower, than they were when I was a junior forty years ago. What would now rightly be considered low tech cheating was almost endemic then.

[Adam Raoof]

http://www.auschess.org.au/ACFBannedPlayers.html

Here is the Australian's Federation link about banned players, admittedly it looks rather blank at the moment, but when I last looked there were players on this list, so perhaps everybody is behaving at the moment

You will note that no reference is made to why the player is banned. It isn't specifically employed to combat cheating - the most notorious case is someone who uses foul language on chat rooms and forums, and it is also possible that lists like this include players who have defaulted on payment of membership fees.

Take a look at the list of reasons given on their code of ethics!

http://www.auschess.org.au/constitution ... Ethics.txt

[Alan Walton]

I may be being lazy not checking myself, but does the ECF have an official code of ethics within the constitution, and resulting consequences if violated?

[LozCooper]

I may be being lazy not checking myself, but does the ECF have an official code of ethics within the constitution, and resulting consequences if violated?

This matter was raised some time back on another thread and I refered the matter to the board. I believe something is being drawn up.

[Sean Hewitt]

Following an appeal hearing held this morning which has just finished, a French player has been disqualified from the event for cheating by receiving outside assistance. There will be an official announcement on the tournament website http://www.aixlesbains2011.fr within an hour I'm told.

I'm not able to name the player yet, but it will be pretty obvious when his opponent wins this afternoon by default.

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

Good grief. Whoever it is ought to be banned for life on the grounds of stupidity. Fancy trying to cheat in a tournament in France just after several of their leading players have been caught at it!

[Sean Hewitt]

Thanks to everyone who has message me privately about this. Sorry I wasn't able to give details. However, it is now online here.