Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

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Matt Fletcher
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Matt Fletcher » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:42 am

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:52 pm
Let me test out a theory. There were said to be 118 voters and I'm not suggesting that this isn't the strict truth. But, just as a matter of interest, did anyone on this forum cast any one of those 118 votes or does anyone know anyone who did?
It was a Twitter poll. I voted for GameChanger on the basis that what I’d seen from Sadler looked interesting and at least two of the other books looked terrible.

This is the poll (118 votes, as advertised) https://twitter.com/chessclublive/statu ... 79776?s=21

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:47 am

As far as I'm aware, the main purpose of that account is attention-seeking.(Yes, yes, but in this instance egregiously so.)
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

David Robertson
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by David Robertson » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:29 pm

O.G. Urcan wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:06 am
I note this tweet by "Chess Club Live":

https://twitter.com/ChessClubLive/statu ... 5494371328
LOL. I'd guess 500,000 'chess cash' = 1 Venezuelan bolivar

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:19 am

Another hostile review

https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/ ... ification/
Reusing one’s own text is not illegal or immoral, but the fact that the reuse is so blatant, and that Keene has made such a career of it, leaves something of a bad taste here. Couple this with the editing and spelling problems – “Kieseritsky,” “Vesselin Topalov,” and World Championship “Finallist” Nigel Short are but a small sample – and Carlsen v Caruana must be seen as something of a disappointment, failing to add anything new to the literature.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:23 pm

"“Kieseritsky,” & “Vesselin Topalov,”"

are both transliterations from cyrillic alphabets, so that's maybe harsh...

Nick Grey
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:10 pm

Chess & Bridge have plenty of other Keene books on sale. Also second hand too. Though I think I will wait until they go for 1 pound or a ten bob note.

I cannot see that Westminster library service have bothered to buy a copy. Nor Kingston either. Other sellers may have it if you want to buy.

I cannot remember a vote e-mail but it may have been on one of those rolling streams on ECF web which can be confusing.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 am

"are both transliterations from cyrillic alphabets, so that's maybe harsh..."

Bernard Cafferty disagrees with me, and he would know!

O.G. Urcan
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by O.G. Urcan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:18 am

Raymond Keene has just reacted at http://www.chessgames.com/player/raymond_keene.html to criticism of his Carlsen v Caruana match book (criticism made in, for instance, my review at https://www.patreon.com/posts/23138934). That review gave countless examples of copying, factual mistakes, typos, etc. in the book. Raymond Keene does not dispute any of the examples; he simply ignores them all.

O.G. Urcan

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:26 pm

A direct link to the post over at Keene's chessgames page (I presume it is widely known that that is actually Keene himself?):

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesspla ... reply10062
ray keene at chessgames.com wrote:as I pointed out , my book on the World Championship already came runner up in the Chess Club live online awards. The notes were written jointly by Byron Jacobs and myself. I was physically present for every game but one which happened to be a conventional draw. I think you have to look at recent Fide events ( such as the personalities involved in the presidential election) to explain the extraordinary attack on a book I consider one of my best, as confirmed by other unbiased reviews!
The earlier post (to give some context to what is posted over there):
ray keene at chessgames.com wrote:Happy Christmas Day. Thanks for all the great comments. A few responses:

So happy that my book on the Tarrasch French is liked. Yes Shaun Taulbut and I are still around.

Final score in Carlsen v Caruana was 9-6 so my prediction was in the right direction even tho there was a rapid shoot out.

Yes I have seen and annotated the Alpha Zero games see @times_chess on twitter for links to my column in The Times.

Yes Fide must change WCC format. Now that Nigel Short is Fide VEEP I expect great things😀

My book on the match is out and achieved the distinction of silver medal in the Chess Club Live book poll.

On @times_chess I shall post some entertaining games for The Christmas Holidays.

God bless you all especially our friends who keep chess games.com alive and well through thick and thin.

Happy and Blessed Christmas Day🌲🎄😇
I had forgotten quite how heavily involved Keene has been in promoting himselfon chessgames.com.

See also Chessgames.com (Wikipedia article):
In 2013, Chesscafe.com columnist and chess historian Olimpiu G. Urcan published an article criticising the "phony scholarship" and lack of ethical standards of Chessgames.com and chess websites in general. He also criticised its close association with Raymond Keene.
The original article by Urcan is still well worth reading.

BTW, does anyone know what the latest is on chessgames (the website)? Is it still being administered on an interim basis, or is it on a more stable long-term footing again?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:45 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:26 pm
BTW, does anyone know what the latest is on chessgames (the website)? Is it still being administered on an interim basis, or is it on a more stable long-term footing again?
It's still being updated with games. 1777 games dated 2019 for example.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:41 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:26 pm
ray keene at chessgames.com wrote:as confirmed by other unbiased reviews!
Regrettably he does not name any of these.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:51 pm

Some further adventures of Ray on chessgames.com
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:57 pm

You could write a book on Ray's exploits, you know... I wonder if it would sell much?

Roger Lancaster
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:35 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:41 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:26 pm
ray keene at chessgames.com wrote:as confirmed by other unbiased reviews!
Regrettably he does not name any of these.
LOL, although one suspects that those whom Ray might considered "unbiased" wouldn't readily conform to Justin's use of the word.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess & Bridge Withdraw Ray Keene's Book from Sale

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:03 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:57 pm
You could write a book on Ray's exploits, you know... I wonder if it would sell much?
It's an idea, but although I personally think Ray's an interesting character who's led an interesting life, I don't believe there's much interest outside the chess world in what happens within it. (And indeed this is a partial explanation for how he has been able to get away with so much for so long.)
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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