Hastings Congress

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Ian Thompson
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:01 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:48 am
Nick Burrows wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:53 pm
Why would the final round on a Sunday not start earlier to accommodate players who work?
I suppose being a Sunday, public transport is less frequent than if the tournament ended on a weekday.
On the other hand, with it starting on a Saturday and ending on a Sunday, it only requires 4 days off work for most people (excluding extra days from travel). In most years it would require 5 or 6 days off work excluding travel.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:31 pm

There are two reasons for the last round of the Hastings Masters not starting earlier.
The first has been hinted at. Feedback received has been that players generally prefer to play in the afternoon and to have consistent round times.
Another reason though is that there is a weekend congress taking place. It would not be a good idea to have the last round of the Masters interrupted at an important stage by players (noisily) coming in for the last round of the weekender sections. This can be a problem on the Friday night but is alleviated by round 1 byes.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:04 pm

One year the last round of the Hastings :remier started in the morning (as it always did).
Michael Bsman said his game was the only one still going after 30 minutes.

When I became one of the organisers of the congress in 1986, I said it would be over my dead body for the last round to start in the morning.
It interferes dreadfully with players' biorhythms. It is a serious chess tournament, not just a holiday.

Written while on a cruise ship o my way to the Caribbean.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm

Entries to the Masters now exceed 100, so according to the entry form accelerated pairings will be used, presumably the Baku method of awarding dummy points to some of the players for half the tournament. I seem likely to be halfway down the third quartile, so at least I avoid Keith Arkell or someone of that rating in the first round.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:45 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Entries to the Masters now exceed 100, so according to the entry form accelerated pairings will be used
Probably, but there is still the (small) possibility that enough players take first round byes that they aren't used.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
presumably the Baku method of awarding dummy points to some of the players for half the tournament.
That''s what the website says - 5 rounds of acceleration with the top half of the field (rounded up) getting 1 dummy point for 3 rounds and 0.5 dummy points for 2 rounds.

NickFaulks
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:58 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Entries to the Masters now exceed 100, so according to the entry form accelerated pairings will be used, presumably the Baku method of awarding dummy points to some of the players for half the tournament.
A ghastly and pointless perversion, but not sufficient to deter me from entering an otherwise excellent tournament.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:01 pm

"A ghastly and pointless perversion"

with extra or half-extra points!

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:19 pm

Kevin >with extra or half-extra points!<

That is only for the purpose of pairings. After 5 rounds the players revert to their actual scores. It is called the Bonus Accelerated Pairing System. The other one is the Fractional Pairing System. I prefer the latter. That is understandable as I invented it. But it has never been computerised.
I asked Alex McFarlane which system he preferred. He replied that is a very difficult question.
Both have advantages over the Seeded Swiss System; the only advantage of which is familiarity.
There are fewer mismatches in the first round.
It is probably more accurate in determining the places of middle-ranking players.
If there is a large number of low rated players, then it is easier to meet the required mix for a title norm.

NickFaulks
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:19 pm
Both have advantages over the Seeded Swiss System; the only advantage of which is familiarity.
There are fewer mismatches in the first round.
It is probably more accurate in determining the places of middle-ranking players.
If there is a large number of low rated players, then it is easier to meet the required mix for a title norm.
1. There's nothing wrong with using a pairing system which the players understand ( unless you're an arbiter ).
2. Which are a traditional and welcomed feature of a long Swiss event.
3. So what?
4. Not applicable here.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:26 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:19 pm
If there is a large number of low rated players, then it is easier to meet the required mix for a title norm.
4. Not applicable here.
With about 65% of the players having ratings below the floor for a GM norm and 40% of the entrants having ratings below the floor for an IM norm, I'd say there are a large number of low rated players. About 20% of the players are even below the rating floor for a WIM norm.

NickFaulks
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:36 pm

Yes, but meeting one opponent below the relevant rating floor is actually a good thing, because you get credit for a higher rating when you beat them.

Nick Grey
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:44 am

Roger, Nick and Nick you ought not worry about the pairing system nor taking time off for chess.

I enjoyed my 6 days leave for playing in the London Chess Classic. There are lots of juniors and adults that are lower rated than you that can beat you in any round.

I have to work but will look forward to watching some on-line. it is good that the congress is happening and I hope all that have posted enjoy it.

Brian Towers
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:36 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:45 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Entries to the Masters now exceed 100, so according to the entry form accelerated pairings will be used
Probably, but there is still the (small) possibility that enough players take first round byes that they aren't used.
Why on earth do you think that first round byes have anything to do with it? Acceleration lasts for several rounds.
Where do you get the strange idea that accelerated pairing can be cancelled at the last minute if it has already been announced?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Ian Thompson
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Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:30 pm

Brian Towers wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:36 pm
Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:45 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:00 pm
Entries to the Masters now exceed 100, so according to the entry form accelerated pairings will be used
Probably, but there is still the (small) possibility that enough players take first round byes that they aren't used.
Why on earth do you think that first round byes have anything to do with it? Acceleration lasts for several rounds.
Where do you get the strange idea that accelerated pairing can be cancelled at the last minute if it has already been announced?
1. Because the tournament rules say accelerated pairings will only be used if there are more than 100 entrants.
2. Because the FIDE pairing rules say that players known to be absent for the first round (or rounds) are excluded from the pairing numbers and only get added in for the round in which they are first going to play. They're treated no differently, for pairing purposes, than someone who misses the first round(s) because they enter the tournament after it has started.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Hastings Congress

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:38 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:30 pm

2. Because the FIDE pairing rules say that players known to be absent for the first round (or rounds) are excluded from the pairing numbers and only get added in for the round in which they are first going to play.
That's not the way the commonly used chess-results software operates though. The list of entrants on the server would include all those electing half point byes.

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