FIDE's 400pt rule

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
User avatar
Paolo Casaschi
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:46 am

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:58 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:23 pm
Chris Rice wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:03 pm
However, one surely has to question the legality of having a camera installed in the bathroom?
I wonder what they've done with footage of other patrons who were using the facility for its legitimate purpose. Makes you wonder.
I also wonder how many arbiters/organisers thought someone might be cheating and took the liberty of taking bathroom pictures, then avoiding advertising the event when no cheating was detected.

This sets a very dangerous precedent: should chess players going forward expect that someone might take bathroom pictures of them if anyone suspects them of cheating?

User avatar
Paolo Casaschi
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:46 am

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Paolo Casaschi » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:04 pm

Nick Grey wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:03 pm
That the photo has made page 3 of The Sun puts the case into the public domain and a quote from Gormally -'It's amazing Rausis wasn't stopped earlier...
Perhaps there will be more checking of unusual improvements.
Such great news to attract more players to chess, especially youngsters and women: if your opponent thinks you are cheating they might follow you in the bathroom and take pictures!

Nick Burrows
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Nick Burrows » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:09 pm

So we know that a handful of players cheat with phones in the toilet. Players are under no obligation to submit to being searched. Photographing someone in a cubicle is most likely illegal.

Why not arm all arbiters with one of those metal detecting wands as an essential piece of kit.

If the limit of a legal search is to find a phone on person, the penalty for doing so must be on a par to cheating.

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:47 pm

If you think making an accusation that a child cheated without proof is appropriate, probably better to do it on your own site than lumber Carl with the consequences.

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 6442
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:51 pm

Nick Ivell wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:59 am
I'm more concerned with the apparent fact that a cheater has been caught, than the propriety of the methods used.
That's your privilege, but the posters who find the "methods" problematic may have good points to make, and if we don't think about them now, we may wish we had done so in the future.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Paul Cooksey » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:41 pm
Seriously, this is a great and shameful fall for such a well-known player. Very disheartening.
My feelings too. I was chatting with someone last weekend and said I was intending to post in defence of Rausis, since I did not think he was abusing the 400 point rule. I feel a bit of a fool for not making the connection to cheating sooner.

I don't believe there is a lot of cheating at master level. But I get why Keith and some of the other professional players are reacting with anger rather than sadness.

Dewi Jones
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:55 am

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Dewi Jones » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:29 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:14 pm
xx

I'm glad that everyone has kissed and made up.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:57 pm
Stewart Reuben wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:51 pm
Mostly these chess cheating matters go to the FIDE Fair Play Commission. If they ban somebody, the player is entitled to take the commission to court. That is why they are so circumspect.
The reports appear to imply that he admitted the phone usage. Perhaps the photograph was posed after the detection. Some reports seem to be indicating that the phone was found in the cubicle immediately after Rausis had been in there.
Maybe, but I'm wondering why his left trouser leg is pulled up above his knee? An obvious possibility is that the phone was concealed on the lower part of his left leg, perhaps in the sock (or whatever it is) he's wearing that goes almost up to his knee.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18101
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:27 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 pm

Maybe, but I'm wondering why his left trouser leg is pulled up above his knee? An obvious possibility is that the phone was concealed on the lower part of his left leg, perhaps in the sock (or whatever it is) he's wearing that goes almost up to his knee.
I suppose it would make sense to conceal the phone as carrying it in a pocket could leave him liable for instant default were it spotted during the game. Presumably the FIDE hit squad were observing play and how often he left the board.

There was that Irish case where an offended player took the law into his own hands by disturbing an opponent with a phone in a cubicle and got accused of assault for his trouble.

User avatar
Carl Hibbard
Posts: 5728
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:05 pm
Location: Evesham

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:00 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:47 pm
If you think making an accusation that a child cheated without proof is appropriate, probably better to do it on your own site than lumber Carl with the consequences.
I return home and lots of posts seem to have now gone.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

User avatar
IM Jack Rudd
Posts: 3931
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
Location: Bideford

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:24 am

I was at a party last night, and the Rausis case was the subject of much discussion. (As far as I know, I was the only active chess player at the party.)

Chris Rice
Posts: 2774
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 am

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Chris Rice » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:30 am

The sequence of events widely reported by the media and in particular FIDE, in the Rausis incident, has been questioned by local French newspaper Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace. The article says that it was the players who took it upon themselves to follow Rausis and take a picture in the bathroom. It was then reported to FIDE who then appeared to take all the credit for it.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 18101
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:54 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:30 am
The sequence of events widely reported by the media and in particular FIDE, in the Rausis incident, has been questioned by local French newspaper Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace.
That does help to explain the photograph if it was taken by an anonymous player rather than by an arbiter.

Had FIDE not been officially involved, leaking the photograph would likely have damaged Rausis's reputation sufficiently to finish his career. That's added to the 200 point Elo gain and whatever the witchfinder program suggested on engine matching.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by LawrenceCooper » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:01 pm

Chris Rice wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:30 am
The sequence of events widely reported by the media and in particular FIDE, in the Rausis incident, has been questioned by local French newspaper Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace. The article says that it was the players who took it upon themselves to follow Rausis and take a picture in the bathroom. It was then reported to FIDE who then appeared to take all the credit for it.
Presumably players who had finished their games :?

Brian Towers
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: FIDE's 400pt rule

Post by Brian Towers » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:10 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:01 pm
Presumably players who had finished their games :?
Or a player with a dedicated digital camera. At my previous club there was one strong player (~2200) from another club who used to play in our FIDE tournaments who used to do just that and who, part way through a round, would take a few pictures for his club's website. He would then go back to finish his game. Didn't disturb anybody, didn't break any rules.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Post Reply