Preferences for a weekender

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What would be your preferred choices for a new standard play weekender?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:52 pm

Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 7 rounds
1
5%
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 6 rounds
5
25%
Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 5 rounds
6
30%
Saturday and Sunday only, 6 rounds
0
No votes
Saturday and Sunday only, 5 rounds
2
10%
Bank Holiday weekends, Friday to Monday, 9 rounds
2
10%
Bank Holiday weekends, Saturday to Monday only, 7 rounds
2
10%
Bank Holiday weekends, Saturday to Monday only, 6 rounds
0
No votes
Bank Holiday weekends, Saturday to Monday only, 5 rounds
2
10%
 
Total votes: 20

Paul McKeown
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Preferences for a weekender

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:52 pm

I would be obliged if players could give me their preferences for a proposed new weekender tournament.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:12 pm

Do seven round tournaments of that type actually exist?

The only ones I have been aware of since the 1980s at least are those that continued into a (bank holiday) Monday.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Paul McKeown
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:16 pm

I have no idea, Matt. Just trying to work out what people would like to see in a new tournament.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:34 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:16 pm
I have no idea, Matt. Just trying to work out what people would like to see in a new tournament.
If you use Easter or in some years the New Year, a nine round format Thursday, Friday *2, Saturday*2, Sunday*2, Monday*2 becomes possible. For a Seniors tournament or even a junior tournament during school holidays a seven round Thursday, Friday*2, Saturday*2, Sunday*2 can also be considered. You could play Thursday afternoon instead of Thursday evening. Friday evening club nights for league play are unusual, the clash with Thursday matches might become an issue, but there's always the half point bye.

Although twelve hours play in a day is allowed for FIDE rating, in practice tournaments with three rounds in a day use move rates faster than FIDE permits for entries unrestricted by rating where every game is rated. Over time, the BCF/ECF moved to a position where any session length over one hour could be graded as Standardplay whether or not unusual or bizarre move rates were chosen by the organiser. FIDE remain somewhat more restrictive.

Travel times come into it. If players are likely to be driving to and from the tournament, the easy half hour run on a Saturday or Sunday morning can take twice as long on a Friday evening.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:07 pm

I'd rule out all of the options that require 3 rounds in a single day.

I'd also add a new option - Bank Holiday weekends, Friday to Monday, 7 rounds; the day with only one game being either Friday or Monday - as commonly used by tournaments over the Easter weekend.

Julie Denning
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Julie Denning » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 am

I've no strong preference beyond saying that 3 standardplay games in a day isn't practical. If in doubt, just look at the Longson vs Toma game yesterday in the English Women's Championship. OK, that was truly exceptional but a couple of my games in the same event were at, or close to, 4 hours.

NickFaulks
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:04 am

Julie Denning wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 am
I've no strong preference beyond saying that 3 standardplay games in a day isn't practical. If in doubt, just look at the Longson vs Toma game yesterday in the English Women's Championship.
There is no law saying that you must have an increment as long as 30 seconds. In my opinion that is a bad idea even with two rounds per day.

Tim Spanton
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:17 am

Adam Raoof's Hampstead monthly Fide-rated tournaments are 3 rounds on the Saturday and 2 on the Sunday with a time control of 60mins + 30sec increment. This works well as the games are rarely long, and apparently they can be Fide-rated as long as players are U2200.
I would prefer 1 Fri, 2 Sat and 2 Sun, but AR's format requires only a two-day hire.

https://beauchess.blogspot.com/

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:22 am

Julie Denning wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 am
I've no strong preference beyond saying that 3 standardplay games in a day isn't practical.
It's standard practice for weekend tournaments taking place over two days. Under current FIDE rules, they aren't both Open and FIDE rated.Typical move rates are 90 minutes with 15 second increments (notional session length three and half hours) or 80 minutes with 10 second increments (session length three hours). In the past 36 in 90 plus 15 was popular.

Andy Stoker
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Andy Stoker » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:54 am

Probably not a recognised format now - but in 1970s, Birmingham University ran tournaments with 7 x 1 hour per person games on Sat / Sun - which were good. Reasonable standard of play.

Brian Towers
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Brian Towers » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:10 pm

Paul McKeown wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:52 pm
I would be obliged if players could give me their preferences for a proposed new weekender tournament.
This is meaningless without time controls. Rating restrictions might also be relevant.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Preferences for a weekender

Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:19 pm

    Brian, you could always make some choices in the poll, and then specify your assumptions in making your assumptions, and even how your choices would vary if the assumptions changed.

    FIDE sets three basic rating bands for the rating of standard play tournaments:

    For a game to be rated, each player must have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves, assuming the game lasts 60 moves.
    Where at least one of the players in the tournament has a rating 2200 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 120 minutes.
    Where at least one of the players in the tournament has a rating 1600 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 90 minutes.
    Where all the players in the tournament are rated below 1600, each player must have a minimum of 60 minutes.
    - from FIDE Handbook https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=172

    These would correspond to the following time limits
    • >2200 90 minutes per player per game plus 30 seconds per move
    • < 2200 60 minutes per player per game plus 30 seconds per move
    • <1600 60 minutes per player per game

    Roger de Coverly
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    Re: Preferences for a weekender

    Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:36 pm

    Paul McKeown wrote:
    Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:19 pm

    These would correspond to the following time limits
    >2200 90 minutes per player per game plus 30 seconds per move
    If the intention is to run a tournament that's both Open and FIDE rated, the choice of formats is constrained by the four hour or longer sessions this time limit implies. I think Hastings weekenders some years ago used a non-incremental move rate of 40 moves for 100 minutes plus 20 combined with three rounds in a day, but I don't think anyone has tried three rounds of four hours with increments.

    Paul McKeown
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    Re: Preferences for a weekender

    Post by Paul McKeown » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:26 pm

    Roger de Coverly wrote:
    Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:36 pm
    Paul McKeown wrote:
    Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:19 pm

    These would correspond to the following time limits
    >2200 90 minutes per player per game plus 30 seconds per move
    If the intention is to run a tournament that's both Open and FIDE rated, the choice of formats is constrained by the four hour or longer sessions this time limit implies. I think Hastings weekenders some years ago used a non-incremental move rate of 40 moves for 100 minutes plus 20 combined with three rounds in a day, but I don't think anyone has tried three rounds of four hours with increments.
    Assuming the game lasts 60 moves, as per the FIDE regulation, then

    t = 90 + 90 + 0.5 * 60 + 0.5 * 60 = 240

    Have I misunderstood something, or made a mistake somewhere?

    Roger de Coverly
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    Re: Preferences for a weekender

    Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:00 am

    Paul McKeown wrote:
    Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:26 pm

    Assuming the game lasts 60 moves, as per the FIDE regulation, then

    t = 90 + 90 + 0.5 * 60 + 0.5 * 60 = 240

    Have I misunderstood something, or made a mistake somewhere?
    That's 240 minutes (4 hours) for each player. 8 hours elapsed time in total for two rounds. Add a third game and it's 12 hours.

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