End of an era

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Paul Habershon
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Re: End of an era

Post by Paul Habershon » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:49 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:56 pm
Paul Habershon wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:37 pm
Extracts from the handwritten flyer about Clarke include: 'The most difficult player in Britain to defeat; he has lost only 3 games since 1964' - 'Fees - Display over 20 boards 10 guineas
What
Does that apparent question refer to the fee? Clarke charged clubs 10 guineas for a simul. Clubs could then charge players accordingly.

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JustinHorton
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Re: End of an era

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm

I just found it curious to quote a price in guineas, though Wikipedia tells me that this was not unknown at the time.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: End of an era

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:14 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm
I just found it curious to quote a price in guineas, though Wikipedia tells me that this was not unknown at the time.

It remained reasonably normal until shortly before decimalisation in 1971. Ten shillings and sixpence, being half a guinea was also a popular price, not least for books. Goods under £ 10 were often priced in shillings, there being 100 shillings to the fiver and 200 shillings to the tenner.

David Sedgwick
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Re: End of an era

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:30 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm
I just found it curious to quote a price in guineas, though Wikipedia tells me that this was not unknown at the time.
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:14 pm
It remained reasonably normal until shortly before decimalisation in 1971. Ten shillings and sixpence, being half a guinea was also a popular price, not least for books. Goods under £ 10 were often priced in shillings, there being 100 shillings to the fiver and 200 shillings to the tenner.
I remember having a medical examination when I changed schools in 1966. The doctor's fee was a guinea.

Roger Lancaster
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Re: End of an era

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:03 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm
I just found it curious to quote a price in guineas, though Wikipedia tells me that this was not unknown at the time.
If you have deep pockets, you can still buy a guinea coin. The last ones, in gold, were minted in 1813.

John McKenna
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Re: End of an era

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:09 pm

Originally -

"The guinea was a coin of approximately one-quarter ounce of gold that was minted in Great Britain between 1663 and 1814. The name came from the Guinea region in West Africa, where much of the gold used to make the coins originated. It was the first English machine-struck gold coin, originally worth one pound sterling, equal to twenty shillings, but rises in the price of gold relative to silver caused the value of the guinea to increase, at times to as high as thirty shillings. From 1717 to 1816, its value was officially fixed at twenty-one shillings."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_(coin)

There was also a silver coin known as the "two-bob-bit" -

"The Florin was a coin worth two Shillings. It was issued from 1849 until 1967 and worth one tenth of a Pound, or twenty-four old Pence."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_bob_bit
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John McKenna
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Re: End of an era

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:22 pm

Roger Lancaster wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:03 pm
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm
I just found it curious to quote a price in guineas, though Wikipedia tells me that this was not unknown at the time.
If you have deep pockets, you can still buy a guinea coin. The last ones, in gold, were minted in 1813.
In 2013 a version commemorative of the coin was made available -

"The UK's Royal Mint has revealed the design of a new £2 coin based on the guinea, a gold coin used in the UK from 1663 to 1813. The £2 coin marks the 350th anniversary of the guinea's first striking."

https://www.centralbanking.com/central- ... nniversary
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Alex McFarlane
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Re: End of an era

Post by Alex McFarlane » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:58 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:22 pm
used in the UK from 1663 to 1813
Was there a UK in 1663?

1707 or 1801 or 1922 might be acceptable, although obviously the last date is after the end of production, as the dates of usage in the UK.

John McKenna
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Re: End of an era

Post by John McKenna » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:13 pm

Sorry about the confusion, Alex.

I was quoting from Wiki.

So, yes, no UK at that date.

But there was this starter (again, I'm quoting Wiki) -

"Union of the Crowns. The Union of the Crowns (Scottish Gaelic: Aonadh nan Crùintean; Scots: Union o the Crouns) was the accession of James VI of Scotland to the thrones of England and Ireland, and the consequential unification for some purposes (such as overseas diplomacy) of the three realms under a single monarch on 24 March 1603."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Crowns

The end of an era and the start of another.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Nick Grey
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Re: End of an era

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:31 pm

guineas in Horse racing now. Normal currency in CHESS plus life. NO Vat tHen.

Reg Clucas
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Re: End of an era

Post by Reg Clucas » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:51 pm

I think there was a certain snob value in quoting prices in guineas. Also, it enabled a 5% price mark-up without it being too obvious, e.g. 20 guineas = £21.

Tim Spanton
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Re: End of an era

Post by Tim Spanton » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:54 pm

It used to be that a barrister was paid in guineas, keeping the pounds for himself and giving the shillings to his clerk

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John Clarke
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Re: End of an era

Post by John Clarke » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:19 am

In the film A Hard Day's Night the lads plus their minder Norm charge into a posh gambling club to collar Paul's mischievous (and fictional) grandfather. They're presented with his bill.

Norm: "A hundred and eighty quid??" *
Club Manager (icily): "Ahem .... guineas."

Fortunately grand-dad's winnings at the tables cover the amount. But strange anomaly: the flunkey who brings them quotes (and presumably pays) them in pounds.

* A heckuva lot of money back then - something like a month and a half's wages.
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

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JustinHorton
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Re: End of an era

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:11 pm

This amused me (the reference is to The Times)

Image

and then I thought hang on, a very long-time columnist didn't have a complimentary sub?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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JustinHorton
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Re: End of an era

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:45 am

Your friend and mine has written another of his pieces for The Article and....Good Lord.

1. It contains an extended plug for his notorious friend and fellow-beneficiary of the Brain Trust scam, Professor Michael Crawford, "Director of the Institute of Brain Chemistry and Human Nutrition at London’s Imperial College", an Institute which (as Ray-watchers know) doesn't appear to exist in any physical form.

2. It gets in a little bit of climate change denial
The rise in mental ill-health is, according to Crawford, a far graver menace to the survival of humanity than the climate change, so loudly trumpeted by, for example, activist Greta Thunberg.
which is not a first for Ray, whose liking for crankery and woo seems to have overtaken him entirely in recent times.

3.
it is time to start promoting mind-strengthening activities on a truly global scale.

Of course, I recommend chess as the most readily available, enjoyable and cost effective instrument to achieve this goal. Statistics indicate that there are already 600,000,000 committed chess fans around the world
Of course!
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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