Is This A Record?

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Tim Spanton
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Is This A Record?

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:19 pm

In one of my games at Hampstead over the weekend, White made six consecutive moves in the opening with the same piece.
The game is here: https://beauchess.blogspot.com/2020/02/ ... ecord.html
Unfortunately I have been unable to find anything on the internet to confirm or deny a record.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by JustinHorton » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:08 pm

I don't have a refutation of this claim, but for what it's worth, I was thinking that two likely places to look for such a thing were

(a) an early king hunt with a queen delivering a lot of checks
(b) a desperado sequence with a knight hopping around.

Anyway I looked up desperado on Wikipedia and it gives a game Bogolubow v Schmid in which moves 5 to 9 are played solely by White's queen's knight and Black's king's knight.

So what, you may ask, that's only five moves. Indeed it is, but I notice that had the position been reached not by a Four Knights move order (3 Nc3 Nf6 4 d4 exd4) but via the Scotch (3 d4 exd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6) then the Black knight would indeed have played six consecutive moves, and I wonder whether that particular sequence has ever been played.
Last edited by JustinHorton on Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tim Spanton
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:23 pm

Hmm. Interesting. Maybe Berkley - Spanton will have to settle for six consecutive moves with the same piece in the opening and none of them a capture …

https://beauchess.blogspot.com/

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:37 pm

I am sure this record could be matched, if not broken. Desperadoes and king hunts seem the right way to go. What about desperadoes where pawns promote in the corner after taking a rook - if a pawn has promoted, is it the same piece?

Tim Spanton
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:03 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:37 pm
I am sure this record could be matched, if not broken. Desperadoes and king hunts seem the right way to go. What about desperadoes where pawns promote in the corner after taking a rook - if a pawn has promoted, is it the same piece?
Definitely not! For starters, a pawn isn't even a piece …

(Also, don't forget I am asking about consecutive moves in the opening)

Angus French
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Angus French » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:38 pm

I think Tim's question might be answered - at least partially - using a Chess Query Language query against an established and comprehensive database of games. I'd do this myself but am pressed for time at the moment.

Tim Spanton
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 pm

Angus French wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:38 pm
I think Tim's question might be answered - at least partially - using a Chess Query Language query against an established and comprehensive database of games. I'd do this myself but am pressed for time at the moment.
I fear that is beyond me, even if CQL could manage it (and I am not sure it could).

John McKenna
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by John McKenna » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:30 pm

Pan the technicals, guys!

By using mainly one's noodle - souped up with a quick search - it can easily be discovered that...

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.c5 Nd5 5.Bc4 Nf4 6.Qf3 Ne6...

has been seen at least twice before and is obviously a model answer to Tim's question.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Tim Spanton
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Pan the technicals, guys!

By using mainly one's noodle - souped up with a quick search - it can easily be discovered that...

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.c5 Nd5 5.Bc4 Nf4 6.Qf3 Ne6...

has been seen at least twice before and is obviously a model answer to Tim's question.
OK, then maybe Berkley - Spanton will have to settle for tying a record for six consecutive moves with the same piece in the opening and none of them a capture …

Angus French
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Angus French » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:36 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 pm
Angus French wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:38 pm
I think Tim's question might be answered - at least partially - using a Chess Query Language query against an established and comprehensive database of games. I'd do this myself but am pressed for time at the moment.
I fear that is beyond me, even if CQL could manage it (and I am not sure it could).
Actually I'm not so sure either. Are there any CQL users out there who could say? (I'm intrigued by CQL - it seems both expressive and arcane.)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:57 pm

Angus French wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:38 pm
I think Tim's question might be answered - at least partially - using a Chess Query Language query against an established and comprehensive database of games. I'd do this myself but am pressed for time at the moment.
Excuse me, got a question.

Is CQL simiilar to SQL? where is the database? if It is online What port does it use to connect? is it TCP/IP based? Is there relational tables?

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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Angus French » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:23 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:57 pm
Angus French wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:38 pm
I think Tim's question might be answered - at least partially - using a Chess Query Language query against an established and comprehensive database of games. I'd do this myself but am pressed for time at the moment.
Excuse me, got a question.

Is CQL simiilar to SQL? where is the database? if It is online What port does it use to connect? is it TCP/IP based? Is there relational tables?
CQL is like SQL in the sense that it's for querying databases... Er, you'd need to download the program (in Windows or Mac form) and it works against locally-stored chess databases, in .PGN format - check out the link above for more information.

John McKenna
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by John McKenna » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:28 am

Tim Spanton wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 pm
John McKenna wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Pan the technicals, guys!

By using mainly one's noodle - souped up with a quick search - it can easily be discovered that...

1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.c4 Nb6 4.c5 Nd5 5.Bc4 Nf4 6.Qf3 Ne6...

has been seen at least twice before and is obviously a model answer to Tim's question.
OK, then maybe Berkley - Spanton will have to settle for tying a record for six consecutive moves with the same piece in the opening and none of them a capture …
Extract from your annotations to the game in your blog -
... 15.Nd5 b6
I partly played this, rather than, for example, 15...Bd6, in the hope White would reply 16.Nxe7+, making it seven consecutive moves with the same piece.
A bit of wishful thinking there then.

In the blog post you make no comment on your six corresponding replies. If 16.Nxe7 had been played would you have gained 6 tempi and gone on to win?

Were you been mesmerised by that prancing knight?

Could you have played it better if you'd not talked yourself into playing 15... b6 with thoughts of a possible chess record?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Tim Spanton
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Tim Spanton » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:58 am

A lot of 'if' questions!
I certainly could have played it differently, but 15...b6 seemed to me to be the fun way to play, and anyway was a reasonable move. The real problems with my play came later.

https://beauchess.blogspot.com/

Angus French
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Re: Is This A Record?

Post by Angus French » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:41 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:19 pm
In one of my games at Hampstead over the weekend, White made six consecutive moves in the opening with the same piece.
The game is here: https://beauchess.blogspot.com/2020/02/ ... ecord.html
Unfortunately I have been unable to find anything on the internet to confirm or deny a record.
Would the game below - with 13 consecutive moves made by the same piece, starting on move 10 - count?


(To find the above game I wrote a program in Python using python-chess. The program finds games in a .pgn database which have 7 or more consecutive moves made by the same piece with the sequence starting before move 11. Qualifying games (numbering 106) from a search against the first 1,000,000 games in my main games database are here.)
Last edited by Angus French on Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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