(Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Ian Thompson
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:47 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:29 pm
Yes, 3.19 of the government guidelines is the essential bit.

You could organise a chess tournament with Covid precautions based on APA sections of 6 ...
If 3.19 is the law, which I doubt, due to the various exemptions, you'd need a different arbiter for each APA section, meaning a maximum of 5 players.

Richard Bates
Posts: 3123
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Richard Bates » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:51 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:34 pm
Mike Gunn wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:29 pm
Yes, 3.19 of the government guidelines is the essential bit.

You could organise a chess tournament with Covid precautions based on APA sections of 6 but (e.g.) ordinary Swiss pairings would result in mingling between groups of 6 and would therefore be illegal.
This simply isn't true though is it. I can go to the pub with 5 people at lunch then a different 5 people at supper. There is absolutely no reason why the law prevents a Swiss taking place.
There’s been a fair bit of amusement/comment online that the government have introduced a term “mingling” never before used in English law - and failed to define it in the regulations (whatever we may think it means).

In reality, like everything else involved with the Coronavirus Act, large chunks of it probably aren’t enforceable in the Courts. So really what it comes down to is whether the police will break it up or not, and challenge the organisers to seek future legal redress if they are wrong. Which means consulting with them first to be on the safe side - which leaves the interpretation solely down to them.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Wadih Khoury » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:56 pm

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:44 pm
It would seem like a (potentially dangerous) subversion of the restaurant rule, to have a group of people rotated through different permutations of groups of 6, (the table grouping at the Northumberland Congress for example), 5 times over the course of 3 days in the same indoor space. I just don’t think that’s the type of thing the government wants happening currently.
I genuinely am not sure about the safety argument. As said, we can meet 5 different friends for lunch, and 5 other for dinner at a restaurant where we'll have a density of maybe 2sqm per person and where everyone will be talking more or less loudly, increasing particles in the air. I have even linked an article saying restaurants has a much higher risk profile than other activities.

On the other hand, you could go play chess in a large playing hall with 5-10sqm per person, meeting silently one person at lunchtime and one other at dinnertime.

One does feel much safer than the other, though it does feel like bending the rules.

Pools of 6 all play all, with masks, should be reasonably compliant and secure.

Matt Bridgeman
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:57 pm

I believe North Shields Council are keeping an open mind, while the landscape constantly changes around them. And Northumberland Police wouldn’t sign off on the event, and will investigate complaints if they arise on the weekend.

Richard Bates
Posts: 3123
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Richard Bates » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:47 pm
Mike Gunn wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:29 pm
Yes, 3.19 of the government guidelines is the essential bit.

You could organise a chess tournament with Covid precautions based on APA sections of 6 ...
If 3.19 is the law, which I doubt, due to the various exemptions, you'd need a different arbiter for each APA section, meaning a maximum of 5 players.
Not if the arbiter stays two metres away from all players at all times! ;)

And anyway, why would the role of an arbiter be any different to a waiter in a restaurant?

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:06 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:51 pm
In reality, like everything else involved with the Coronavirus Act, large chunks of it probably aren’t enforceable in the Courts. So really what it comes down to is whether the police will break it up or not, and challenge the organisers to seek future legal redress if they are wrong. Which means consulting with them first to be on the safe side - which leaves the interpretation solely down to them.
I think you'd also need to consult with the local council. I think they have the right to stop an event from taking place even if it meets the legal requirements. e.g. Southampton City Council cancelled two boat shows, and made reference to Regulation 5(1) of the Health Protection Regulations 2020.

LawrenceCooper
Posts: 5329
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:13 am

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:09 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
And anyway, why would the role of an arbiter be any different to a waiter in a restaurant?
In a restaurant waiters serve food and arbiters eat it :wink:

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:11 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm
And anyway, why would the role of an arbiter be any different to a waiter in a restaurant?
You make a good point on why allowing something in a restaurant that is prohibited elsewhere is daft.

Mick Norris
Posts: 8283
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Mick Norris » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:03 pm
It does seem at the moment that the main thrust of Govt policy is to drive people into controlled environments which are taking social distancing guidance seriously and are subject to proper (independent) risk assessment. With all the risks being seen as emerging in, well, uncontrolled environments (private dwellings etc). And the important point is the classification if the buildings themselves, not necessarily the activities which are being engaged in.
I am not sure it is the buildings themselves, though, so just because 1 event in a building is ok, it doesn't mean another would be

Not quite the same as it is outdoors, but Radcliffe Borough can have 600 at a home game, but Bury AFC, ground sharing at Radcliffe, can only have 300 (there's a sort of logical reason for it, but in practical terms it doesn't make much sense)

Northumberland are obviously doing their level best to make it work; I just hope that no-one contracts Covid-19 at a chess event, as we could do without the adverse publicity
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Jacques Parry
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Jacques Parry » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:18 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:33 pm
Given the comment earlier about exempt premises, is this another example of how the Government, Police or Civil Service would like to interpret the law differs from what the law actually says?
In the case of the Government, probably yes. I don't see any basis for tarring civil servants or police with the same brush.

It's difficult to be sure exactly what the new rules are because the latest regulations are not free-standing: they make a lot of rather complicated amendments to the original rules. Soon we will be able to see the rules as amended on legislation.gov.uk, but they haven't had time to make all the necessary changes yet. Even when they do, the result will still be more complicated than the Government would like us to believe.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 19084
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:25 pm

This is the guidance applicable to Community Centres

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... facilities

which also refers to
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... distancing

The suggestion I'm hearing is that with a large enough area, people playing chess is really multiple groups of two. That might rule out a Blitz tournament or skittles where you change opponents, but not necessarily matches or tournaments with pre arranged pairings.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3026
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Matthew Turner » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:36 pm

Mick Norris wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm

Northumberland are obviously doing their level best to make it work; I just hope that no-one contracts Covid-19 at a chess event, as we could do without the adverse publicity
Are people turning against charities, football or working men's clubs?
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... h-12069127

NickFaulks
Posts: 5956
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by NickFaulks » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:09 pm

Jacques Parry wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:18 pm
In the case of the Government, probably yes.
What does "the Government" mean in current circumstances? Isn't it just one man with unlimited emergency powers? The views of his Cabinet can be and are ignored and MPs read the latest rules in the newspaper, just like the rest of us.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Tim Spanton
Posts: 726
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Tim Spanton » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:13 pm

Things are tightening up in the Czech Rep.

From CzechTour website:

"CZECH OPEN 2020
Due to covid restrictions in the Czech Republic, festival participants are allowed to play without wearing masks. Visitors, accompanying persons and players before and after their game are obliged to use the masks. Hereby we kindly ask the participants to arrive at the registation with the mask."

Nick Grey
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: (Chess) Life Returning To Normal

Post by Nick Grey » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:21 pm

Posted at 17:5017:50
Post update
Sheffield United v Wolves (18:00 BST)

The music from Kill Bill pipes in as the teams are read out to nobody in particular.

Another soaking from the sprinklers and we'll be about ready for the teams. I'm going to brew up.

No into football and Sheffield United now my 3rd best team for a reminder of Kill Bill feelings.

Post Reply