Sexism in chess

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J T Melsom
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Sexism in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:17 pm

In another thread debate has been raging about whether sexism is/is not as big a problem as racism. I'm starting this thread so there is no longer any need for the two topics to distract from each other when they are both important in their own right.

Most recent comments on sexism from Tim Spanton (former journalist at the Sun) are below;

'I fear you are being rather complacent if you think chess does not have a problem with sexism. Without naming names, I can think of tournaments that offer special prizes based solely on gender, other tournaments that reduce entry fees if a person's gender matches the organisers' prejudices, and organisations that appoint people whose sole job is to look after the chess interests of a particular gender.'

Paul McKeown
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:27 pm

2% (or whatever the correct statistic is) of chess players are female, and fairly trifling attempts to attract female players causes a diatribe of that nature?

Quod erat demonstrandum. Nothing further needs to be added to such precious howls of male insecurity to prove the case.

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Gerard Killoran
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Gerard Killoran » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:32 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:17 pm

Most recent comments on sexism from Tim Spanton (former journalist at the Sun) are below;
I'm afraid you are mistaken. The S*n does not employ journalists, and never has

J T Melsom
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:36 pm

You read my post as an endorsement of 'journalism' at the Sun? :lol:

John McKenna
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:07 pm

J T Melsom wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:17 pm
In another thread debate has been raging about whether sexism is/is not as big a problem as racism...

SNIP
That "debate" has only just begun there so it can hardly be "raging". (Not sure it's a good idea to raise sexism as a separate topic on its own here since females are unlikely to contribute. Unless non-playing feminists get wind of what you're doing that is.)

Also, while I'm here, I'll just ask - what exactly makes you say "sexism is/is not as big a problem as racism..."?

(Because it has not been established in "another thread" that racism is much of a problem at all in the chess world - anymore than the possible sighting of a single swallow establishes that it's summer.)
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

J T Melsom
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:16 pm

John McKenna - The spirit in which my words were written is clear to almost everybody. I'm sorry you feel that you have to dissect the simple descriptive prose in search of something that isn't there. Perhaps forming a social bubble with this forum is not a good way to address your personal issues. You will be kicked out before the sleepover :)

John McKenna
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:26 pm

Why not try to "no-platform" me first?

Because you cannot read a thread without exaggerating what you think you see and cannot even answer a fairly simple question.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Tim Spanton
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Tim Spanton » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:28 pm

I am glad this thread at least is not going wildly off-topic

J T Melsom
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:37 pm

John : Just stop now. You are going beyond the boundaries of reasonable and relevant debate. There were comments in the other place as to whether racism or sexism was the greater problem. My paragraphs introducing this topic just said that without any comment on the right and wrongs of those views as was clear from the 'is/is not' phrasing. Why do I have to say any more than that especially to somebody who is only interested in semantucs [sic]?

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:47 pm

Dear Magnus - a graphic novella by Fanou Lefebvre describing her experiences in the chess world - including misogynistic comments and sexual abuse from a chess coach.

https://streathambrixtonchess.blogspot. ... aying.html

Published back in 2013 but it still seems relevant. Unless you’d rather talk about reduced entry fees or somesuch.
Last edited by Jonathan Bryant on Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John McKenna
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:53 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:28 pm
I am glad this thread at least is not going wildly off-topic
It's not much of a topic to go on or off about, Tim.

If females choose to play chess that's fine. If not then there won't be much sexism around.

I am surprised more haven't taken up the chance to defeat males on a fairly equal playing field, though.

JT, your initial post asked - is/is not as big a problem as racism. That implies racism is a big problem. You should choose your words more carefully.

I'll stop here now and say no more about a wild goose/gander chase - no matter what else is posted here.

Edit - I see an expert witness for the prosecution has arrived. Without a judge who is to say what is/isn't relevant? (Don't answer that, Jon, you might incriminate yourself.)
Last edited by John McKenna on Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

J T Melsom
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:58 pm

John - it simply doesn't mean what you are saying at all. Repeating a falsehood multiple times won't make it true.

John McKenna
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by John McKenna » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:01 pm

JT, it's no use I'm not listening.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

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JustinHorton
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:02 pm

John McKenna wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:53 pm

If females choose to play chess that's fine. If not then there won't be much sexism around.
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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J T Melsom
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Re: Sexism in chess

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pm

I'm not listening either. I now understand what its like to be trolled. Pity as this topic and the related one deserved better.

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