What's GM short doing?!

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soheil_hooshdaran
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What's GM short doing?!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:26 pm

Hello.
He speaks of suspension of all iranian players, because of governmental policy? This is really unfair! And he himself have worked in Iran while Iran followed this same policy.
And what is he after? I don't think the government would be that concerned with sports, let alone
chess, to the extend of recognizing Israel, refusing recognition of which is one of its pillars.
Besides, there is no chess law to force you to play a special person, as far as I know.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:27 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:26 pm
Besides, there is no chess law to force you to play a special person, as far as I know.
The Swiss system gives someone an opponent based on pairing rules. They are expected to play. That's where Nigel and many others are coming from.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:38 pm

This is a genuinely difficult one tbf.

Not least because some Iranian players might be OK with playing Israeli opponents, but fear the possible consequences if they do.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:08 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:38 pm
This is a genuinely difficult one tbf.

Not least because some Iranian players might be OK with playing Israeli opponents, but fear the possible consequences if they do.
Not just some; most, if not all

Jonathan Rogers
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:14 pm

I agree with Soheil. See separate thread

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11204

Matthew Turner
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:10 pm

How about this as a pragmatic solution?
An Iranian player can register before the start of a tournament that they are not prepared to play an Israeli player. Each round the pairings are carried out as normal, but if a pairing comes out with them facing an Israeli player they are given a half point bye, with this counting as if they had played (i.e. they won't be repaired in a subsequent round). The pairings are then re-done with the Iranian player removed.
Just an idea.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:30 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:10 pm
An Iranian player can register before the start of a tournament that they are not prepared to play an Israeli player.
I believe the intent of the proposal to FIDE is that this practice or equivalent should be ceased. British and maybe some other arbiters adopted the solution of bending the pairings so that Iran v Israel pairings just didn't happened. When they did pairings by shuffling cards it perhaps wasn't so obvious, but the facility got itself incorporated into the Swiss Perfect program. It came up when other arbiters tried to reproduce the Gibraltar pairings that Hou Yifan had complained about. In an earlier year at Gibraltar, one of the Iranian juniors got into trouble because the no play flag hadn't been set. He's now an English junior as a consequence.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:34 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:27 am
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:26 pm
Besides, there is no chess law to force you to play a special person, as far as I know.
The Swiss system gives someone an opponent based on pairing rules. They are expected to play. That's where Nigel and many others are coming from.
Sir, You can skip a round if you have an excuse.
The government's not recognizing Israel is a quite good excuse in my opinion.

Matthew Turner
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:40 pm

Roger,
I believe what I am suggesting is slightly different, because it is generally negative for the Iranian player (certainly in terms of winning events) and no-one else suffers. It isn't so different from an orthodox Jewish player being unable to play on a Saturday.

Alan Walton
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Alan Walton » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:46 pm

The point is Israel does exist in the eyes of the IOC and thus FIDE

I suspect pressure is being applied by the IOC to stop the current situation, and want to follow the Judo line and suspend Iranian federation

But I also agree with what Jonathan said, and is unlikely to change the Iranian government’s position

Regarding not playing if your paired, I suspect FIDE will write the rules in a way that you will be defaulted from the whole congress if you decided not to play an opponent which breaks their rules

Matthew Turner
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:10 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:34 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:27 am
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:26 pm
Besides, there is no chess law to force you to play a special person, as far as I know.
The Swiss system gives someone an opponent based on pairing rules. They are expected to play. That's where Nigel and many others are coming from.
Sir, You can skip a round if you have an excuse.
The government's not recognizing Israel is a quite good excuse in my opinion.
Soheil,
What is happening at the moment is not Iranian players skipping a round, but instead the draw being changed for everyone - that is a big difference.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:10 pm
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:34 pm
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:27 am


The Swiss system gives someone an opponent based on pairing rules. They are expected to play. That's where Nigel and many others are coming from.
Sir, You can skip a round if you have an excuse.
The government's not recognizing Israel is a quite good excuse in my opinion.
Soheil,
What is happening at the moment is not Iranian players skipping a round, but instead the draw being changed for everyone - that is a big difference.
But, what Nigel Short talks about is not about the pairings, but about depriving Iran of the right to participate in International chess events

Matthew Turner
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:23 pm

Yes, I agree. I don't see how what is proposed is workable.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:35 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:15 pm
But, what Nigel Short talks about is not about the pairings, but about depriving Iran of the right to participate in International chess events
When the condition of taking part is that there are no special pairings, a Federation unable to accept this would be excluded. Individual players have been allowed to play under a FIDE flag. It's suspected that they have to have put themselves out of harms way by leaving Iran in order to do this.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: What's GM short doing?!

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:23 am

Just because firuzja or some others have left iran, doesn't mean all people can afford to, and have to, immigrate.
And I don't think anyone ever "required" special pairing, although it is customary.
For example, I myself never met any Israeli player OTB. Why on the earth should I be affected?

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