Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Alan Walton
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:33 pm
Location: Oldham

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Alan Walton » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:58 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:47 pm
I think you are younger than Mark? so if you were an established player and Mark was board 50 then that suggests he was a late starter, so it may well be that it was 11.
At the 1993 U18 Team National Rapidplay Champs; Mark played Board 2 for Surrey (board one may have been Blair Connell)

I thought you might have remembered this since you played board 1 for Lincolnshire in that event (remember you playing Richard Gaughan)

Richard B played board 1 for Richmond I think, I played Tom Hinks-Edwards

Matthew Turner
Posts: 3600
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:00 pm

Enough, OK I got that one wrong

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:01 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:52 pm
Didn't James Plaskett start fairly late (i.e. early to mid-teens)? You generally expect the leading players to have started comfortably in single figures. Magnus Carlsen started young, but I believe gave up for a while and started again when a younger sister started to play.
One point here is that there's different definitions of "started" - there's "learned to play" and "started to play club and tournament chess". That might be quite a small gap these days (not to mention the complication of online) but I don't suppose it used to be so small. For what it's worth I think I learned the moves when I was five, but I was at secondary school before I played in a tournament.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21301
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:03 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:52 pm
Didn't James Plaskett start fairly late (i.e. early to mid-teens)?
Born in 1960, but was playing on a high or top board for Bedfordshire in 1976.

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:42 pm

Hello again Will,

What is happening here is we chess players are tossing ideas and names about, don't fret.
It is how we analyse a game. It will soon gel as we all hit upon the players you will need.

Hopefully you can kick off the article with Staunton etc...and then onto the player.

I have been casting my net out and I have been reminded of...me!

I did not get my first official grade till I was 26, (1720) within three years was editor of chess magazine/fanzine, became
Scottish Open Champion and wrote a chess book! (then took a good job that paid loads of money so only played league chess.)

Of course I knew the game and studied it since I 1o or 11. Did not play much, no one to play with 'skittle only' till 1972.

I tried to join the Edinburgh Chess Club in 1963/64, they would not let me in, they did not take kids.
(all that change with 1972 Fischer boom - now I am an honorary member....so was Howard Staunton!)

But true, I did not become a registered graded player till I was 26. Of course we will gloss over the bit '....went onto great things.'
However, rule me out, I had a rather unique set up - at 25 I moved into and lived in the Edinburgh Chess Club.
One could help but get good, played every night, with some great players, suddenly 100's of expensive chess books at my disposal.

Seriously. What you are looking for is a 40 something starter then good good and is now what we call a reasonable player. (yes!)
(I do not think you will get a modern day GM starting over 30...but someone is nagging at me, a foreign lad..thinking caps on boys..)

Someone here will be bound to know of a good UK late starter. I have two live players in mind, I'll get in touch with them
for more details.

What you may get is someone who was very good young, took job at 18, stopped playing, started again at 40 and discovered they had
not lost his touch, cleaned up the minor tournament (tournaments for the not quite so strong). Took scalps from the better
players when he played in major or open tournaments. I personally know off one such player who fits that's perfectly.

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:55 pm

Hi All,

1993, That is where this phantom player that we all know exists will be.

The UK chess boom, Nigel v Kasparov, 1993.
One of you will know a then 40 something who took up the wood in 1993 and turned into good player.
This what the lad is really after.

A 30-40 something taking up the game in 1972 (the Fischer Boom) would be 70-80+ now.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5206
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:06 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:01 pm
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:52 pm
Didn't James Plaskett start fairly late (i.e. early to mid-teens)? You generally expect the leading players to have started comfortably in single figures. Magnus Carlsen started young, but I believe gave up for a while and started again when a younger sister started to play.
One point here is that there's different definitions of "started" - there's "learned to play" and "started to play club and tournament chess". That might be quite a small gap these days (not to mention the complication of online) but I don't suppose it used to be so small. For what it's worth I think I learned the moves when I was five, but I was at secondary school before I played in a tournament.
Played my first "serious" game a few days after my 15th birthday.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Paul Habershon
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Paul Habershon » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:24 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:03 pm
Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:52 pm
Didn't James Plaskett start fairly late (i.e. early to mid-teens)?
Born in 1960, but was playing on a high or top board for Bedfordshire in 1976.
Joined Bedford Modern School aged 11, Board 5 for school in Sunday Times Final 1974, so nothing special up to age 14, but huge progress 15+. People paid attention when he beat BH Wood at a Hitchin Congress. 2nd in British Championship, Ayr 1978. GM 1985 aged 25.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by MJMcCready » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:41 pm

willcoldwell wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:34 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:30 pm
I have heard a few IMs say if you are pretty good and put the hours in, you'll get there. I do believe about 6 years ago a student placed a bet at a bookmakers that he would become a grand master before shacking up with some chinese babe and scooting off there.
Do you know any more about this guy!?
He featured in an episode of the full english breakfast.

Nick Grey
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:44 pm

Joe Gallagher was a strong player at secondary school. Battersea was a deprived area in 1974 and the abolition of the grammar schools had a bad effect on our GM potential. 30 yo not in UK.

Nick Grey
Posts: 1838
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:53 pm

Gunsberg was a late starter. Battersea was very different then.

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1910
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:41 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:56 pm
Roger Lancaster wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:49 pm
I recall coming up against a 15-year-old whom I'd never heard of in a junior county match back in 1963, thinking I should secure a routine win against this unknown player, but finding myself on the slightly worse end of a draw. [My insertion - ejh.] The name temporarily escapes me but I believe he ended up as both a GM and The Times chess correspondent.
Ray has absolutely loads of games for 1961 on chessgames, and even more for 1962.
True but I was Middlesex junior champion back then and knew, or thought I knew, the leading Surrey juniors. Ray, although slightly younger, wasn't even on my radar. And, although there are plenty of early Ray games on chessgames, a large proportion are in school matches. I seem to recall Ray mentioning, on a much later occasion, that he hadn't taken up the game until 12 or 13 - no obvious reason to disbelieve.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:10 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:42 pm
willcoldwell wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:34 pm
MJMcCready wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:30 pm
I have heard a few IMs say if you are pretty good and put the hours in, you'll get there. I do believe about 6 years ago a student placed a bet at a bookmakers that he would become a grand master before shacking up with some chinese babe and scooting off there.
Do you know any more about this guy!?
Are we talking about Will Taylor? (May have knocked it on the head after a disastrous 2019, not that there's been any chess this year.)
Lawrence Trent was adamant that if you plugged away for years, you'd put 100-200 points on your rating a year and get there eventually.

User avatar
MJMcCready
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:19 am

And of course if you watch The Queens Gambit you'll learn its possible to give simuls within months of learning, even though the more normative elements of chess development are entirely absent. I've heard that courtesy of the success of the show another is being considered where a young lad learns the moves in a cave and within hours is performing blindfold simuls, then within weeks is already rated 2600, just a few days before his third birthday. But this one is more American, so you can expect cars crashing through windows in time trouble, gun fights between arbiters and second-hand book stores being blown up, there might even be an alien invasion too!

User avatar
JustinHorton
Posts: 10364
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Somewhere you're not

Re: Late-starting chess players with grandmaster potential?

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:01 am

MJMcCready wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:10 am
JustinHorton wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:42 pm
Are we talking about Will Taylor? (May have knocked it on the head after a disastrous 2019, not that there's been any chess this year.)
Lawrence Trent was adamant that if you plugged away for years, you'd put 100-200 points on your rating a year and get there eventually.
Where did he say this
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com