English Chess Forum

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:35 pm

"EBay, unfortunately, don't seem to have got it right. They (not the sellers) are collecting VAT on small items (below £135) imported from the EU, but they also seem to be including books in this."

That should be challenged, to see if it's an honest mistake. If they attempt justification, then at least that gives more information. VAT rules have always been complicated.

Yes, of course, but it's not so simple to challenge an organisation like EBay!

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:02 pm

The price of Chess Informants (I have a standing order for 4 a year) appears to have leapt up as well, presumably this is related.

Where does Informant come from? It used to be Serbia, but I think they switched to Cyprus during the sanctions. Did they ever switch back?

I believe they went back to being Belgrade based after the sanctions ended, but would have no idea exactly when.

John Moore wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:57 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:35 pm

"EBay, unfortunately, don't seem to have got it right. They (not the sellers) are collecting VAT on small items (below £135) imported from the EU, but they also seem to be including books in this."

That should be challenged, to see if it's an honest mistake. If they attempt justification, then at least that gives more information. VAT rules have always been complicated.

Yes, of course, but it's not so simple to challenge an organisation like EBay!

I have, however, informed HMRC so we shall see what they say - but presumably not for several weeks (I was also a civil servant at one time )

"Yes, of course, but it's not so simple to challenge an organisation like EBay!

I have, however, informed HMRC so we shall see what they say - but presumably not for several weeks (I was also a civil servant at one time"

True - any big company thinks it can do what it likes, and frequently can.

Last time I contacted HMRC, they took 6 weeks to answer (but they were helpful). It will probably take longer at the moment due to the Covid problem. I never really got involved in VAT, although I was in an EU meeting as scientific expert for UK Customs and there was a brief discussion on, "Is a Jaffa cake a cake or a biscuit?", where they eventually reached a decision, then reversed it about 10 years later...

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:02 pm

The price of Chess Informants (I have a standing order for 4 a year) appears to have leapt up as well, presumably this is related.

Presumably, but how so?

Chess Informant is based in Belgrade, Serbia.

Serbia has already applied to join the EU but still has a long way to go to get in.

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:35 pm

Is a Jaffa cake a cake or a biscuit?", where they eventually reached a decision, then reversed it about 10 years later...

And what was the eventual answer to that one, Kevin?

John McKenna wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:05 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:02 pm

The price of Chess Informants (I have a standing order for 4 a year) appears to have leapt up as well, presumably this is related.

Presumably, but how so?

Chess Informant is based in Belgrade, Serbia.

Serbia has already applied to join the EU but still has a long way to go to get in.

Maybe an extension of -

"Delivery Surcharges

ELEVATED RISK

"A surcharge is applied when shipping to a destination country, DHL is operating at elevated risk due to continuous state of war, civil unrest, or continuous threats from terrorism. Destination countries affected: Afghanistan, Burundi, Iraq, Libya, Mali, Niger, South Sudan, Syria and Yemen..."

https://sahovski.com/Chess-Informant-14 ... p239593351

Jaffa cakes are now cakes...

https://www.kerseys.co.uk/jaffa-cakes-c ... ed%20cakes.

might help! The previous final decision was "biscuit", but after a while, the courts reversed it. (It was about VAT liability.)

I also saw the start of the "Is a Pringle a crisp?" argument. Manufacturer said "No - it's a "shaped potato snack" which was (surprise, surprise) a lower rate of duty.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... ract%20VAT.

John McKenna wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:05 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:02 pm

The price of Chess Informants (I have a standing order for 4 a year) appears to have leapt up as well, presumably this is related.

Presumably, but how so?

Chess Informant is based in Belgrade, Serbia.

Serbia has already applied to join the EU but still has a long way to go to get in.

Serbia quite possibly charges more for countries which are not in the EU?

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:48 pm

The previous final decision was "biscuit", but after a while, the courts reversed it. (It was about VAT liability.)

"Food" is zero rated for VAT, but there are borders drawn as to what counts as food. Crisps, biscuits, chocolate and soft drinks don't count, but cakes do. Hence the Jaffa Cakes row,

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:56 pm

John McKenna wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:05 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:02 pm

The price of Chess Informants (I have a standing order for 4 a year) appears to have leapt up as well, presumably this is related.

Presumably, but how so?

Chess Informant is based in Belgrade, Serbia.

Serbia has already applied to join the EU but still has a long way to go to get in.

Serbia quite possibly charges more for countries which are not in the EU?

From their website -

"FREE SHIPPING ON ALL ORDERS OVER 99$"

https://sahovski.com/

But does a Jaffa cake count as one of your five fruit and veg per day !

E Michael White wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:41 pm

But does a Jaffa cake count as one of your five fruit and veg per day !

Well, it depends whether or not you eat the whole packet.

The thing with these VAT cases is that the shopper never gets the VAT back, it’s always the producer/retailer, so if the £1 pack of Jaffa cakes is held to be VATable they net 83p, if not they net £1. Whether the market would bear a retail price of £1.20 is not clear.

Reading all this makes me relieved to be in NZ. Apart from a few well-defined exceptions (notably residential rents, and provision of financial services), our Goods & Services Tax (GST) is levied on absolutely everything, and at a uniform rate. Compliance can still be onerous enough, but at least we can be sure that as little as practicable of the tax-take goes on supporting a bloated bureaucracy for administering the thing and having to interpret and re-interpret all those confusing rules.