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Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:13 am
by Paul Habershon
I was intrigued by today's position, Black to move and win, because the solution gave only 1...Qxf1+! 2 Kxf1 Bd3+ forces 3 Qxd3 (Kg1 Re1 is mate). I thought the defence 3 Ne2 should have been mentioned because accurate and attractive play is still needed to finish White off.
The daily Winning Move replaced Raymond Keene's column, but there is no indication of who chooses each position and writes the pithy commentary. Sometimes a newspaper will give a columnist's email address to encourage reaction from readers, but none is evident in this case.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:30 am
by Tim Harding
Paul Habershon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:13 am
The daily Winning Move replaced Raymond Keene's column, but there is no indication of who chooses each position and writes the pithy commentary. Sometimes a newspaper will give a columnist's email address to encourage reaction from readers, but none is evident in this case.
GM David Howell writes the column in The Times on Saturdays (and also in The Sunday Times( so I would be pretty sure it is him, unless he delegates it.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:07 pm
by John Upham
Tim Harding wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:30 am
Paul Habershon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:13 am
The daily Winning Move replaced Raymond Keene's column, but there is no indication of who chooses each position and writes the pithy commentary. Sometimes a newspaper will give a columnist's email address to encourage reaction from readers, but none is evident in this case.
GM David Howell writes the column in The Times on Saturdays (and also in The Sunday Times( so I would be pretty sure it is him, unless he delegates it.
As most people will surely know IM Byron Jacobs invisibly assisted Ray for many years. I will enquire.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:16 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
Paul Habershon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:13 am
I was intrigued by today's position, Black to move and win, because the solution gave only 1...Qxf1+! 2 Kxf1 Bd3+ forces 3 Qxd3 (Kg1 Re1 is mate). I thought the defence 3 Ne2 should have been mentioned because accurate and attractive play is still needed to finish White off.
In an attempt to find this "accurate and attractive play" I looked at the two main possibilities after 3.Ne2, namely 3...Bxe2+ and 3...Rxe2. I presume the latter is the stronger move.
After this move (i.e. after 3.Ne2 Rxe2) the King move allows mate. The pawn and bishop moves by White don't avoid the loss of the queen to the discovered check, so presumably there is a queen move that helps stave off defeat. The only possibility is 4.Qa4, which allows an easy mate, so isn't really an improvement on anything.
Where is the "accurate and attractive play" needed to finish White off after 3.Ne2, doesn't 3...Rxe2 just win?
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:08 pm
by Geoff Chandler
I think Paul is right, this line possibly should have been mentioned. Certainly no harm in showing it.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:23 pm
by Paul Habershon
Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:08 pm
I think Paul is right, this line possibly should have been mentioned. Certainly no harm in showing it.
Thanks, Geoff. though I do admit to Chris K that the prosaic 4...Nxd3 5 Kxe2 Nxb2 is an easy win without the extra pawn gained in the 'attractive' line.
The main point is that 3 Ne2 Rxe2! is not mentioned. Some casual Times readers might well assume that 3...Bxe2+ is the better move because it's check.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:30 pm
by MJMcCready
Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:08 pm
I think Paul is right, this line possibly should have been mentioned. Certainly no harm in showing it.
Agreed, the winning line isn't immediately obvious.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:34 pm
by Christopher Kreuzer
Heh. I didn't bother to win the extra pawn in that line! I was wondering if I had missed some spectacular winning method in the (faulty) Bxe2+ line... Yes, should have been mentioned.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:37 pm
by Nick Grey
If daily Winning Move I would not want a solution today. seen it elsewhere...
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:37 pm
by Geoff Chandler
I do not get the Times, (the Sun. Mrs. C. likes it, she picks her horses from there.)
Do they give the players names and date of the game.
I've seen the Qxf1+ and B+ idea before but would not mind seeing whole game.
(sometimes like to guess what the opening was in puzzles, but here not enough clues - it could even have been an Orangutan.)
Do they give the solution under the puzzle or on a different page.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:11 pm
by Paul Habershon
Geoff Chandler wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:37 pm
I do not get the Times, (the Sun. Mrs. C. likes it, she picks her horses from there.)
Do they give the players names and date of the game.
I've seen the Qxf1+ and B+ idea before but would not mind seeing whole game.
(sometimes like to guess what the opening was in puzzles, but here not enough clues - it could even have been an Orangutan.)
Do they give the solution under the puzzle or on a different page.
Yes, players' names, venue and year always given, usually with brief commentary about the position and sometimes some information about a player. Today's was Rozhdestvensky-Bocharov, Barnaul 2021. Solution given on next page. I think that's better than waiting for the next day.
Black's name reminds me of a play I was in at school, playing the part of a Russian member of a trade delegation visiting a Lancashire town and boarding with a factory worker's family. The man asks me where I am from. When I reply 'Bucharov' he starts to take off his jacket ready for a fight. Yes, it was a comedy called 'Friends and Neighbours'. The performance coincided with the JFK assassination and our teacher announced the news to the audience of parents just before the play started - not the best of decisions.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:54 am
by Geoff Chandler
Thanks Paul,
Had a quick search for the game, have a few extra details Mikhail Rozhdestvensky - Dmitry BocharovI and they both
played in the Mens Siberian Federal District Championship -2/march/ 2021 but appear to have avoided each other.
No PGN's the scores of some of the games from that event are photo-copies of the score sheets.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... 61qFbar5eX
Look at PDF No.9 I'm glad I'm not entering the games into a database for that site.
The official site for that Siberian tournament.
http://novosibirskchess.ru/news/chempio ... -10-marta/
(you may have to translate the page.)
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:45 am
by David Sedgwick
Paul Habershon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:11 pm
The performance coincided with the JFK assassination and our teacher announced the news to the audience of parents just before the play started - not the best of decisions.
If someone is seeking to establish their status as a senior citizen, asking them what they were doing when they heard that Kennedy had been shot is a good question to ask.
"Taking part in the school play" is an answer I had not heard before.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:23 pm
by Nick Grey
14 months so I'm not senior on JFK assassination.
Solution on next page best - all papers. Thanks Paul and David for making me laugh.
Re: Times Winning Move
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:51 am
by Joey Stewart
It is a good example of poor problems, which unfortunately litter the internet these days. The Ne2 line is far tougher to find a winning combination from and yet is discounted as though the writer said "oh well the engine says it wins too so no need to show it" .
Bottom line - puzzles need one clear cut solution, anything with multiple branches can go in the bin as far as I am concerned.