The Daily Mail & chess?

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by John Upham » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:39 pm

I'm writing a review of The Daily Mails latest chess publication.

I say latest but I suspect it is their very first.

Has The Daily Mail ever had a chess column / feature or regular puzzle?

Maybe we need to go back to the 1920s?

Thanks for your help.
Last edited by John Upham on Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Roger Lancaster
Posts: 1910
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Roger Lancaster » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:53 pm

I'll defer to the real greybeards here but certainly not in the past 60 years.

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:55 pm

Hi John,

Nothing comes to mind but do give 1972 a look. Every paper jumped on the Fischer-Spassky band wagon.
Even The Sun had a chess bit explaining the rules and moves.

Also do a google for 'Daily Mail + Chess' and you find loads of goodies.
Someone offering £250 an hour for chess and maths lessons. (someone tell Doc John Nunn.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... ambit.html
Last edited by Geoff Chandler on Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joseph Conlon
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:18 pm

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Joseph Conlon » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:44 pm

The Mail on Sunday has a regular puzzle - but are you distinguishing the weekly here from the Sunday paper?

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:00 am

Hi John,

Not quite what you are looking for but Olimpiu G. Urcan found a few Daily Mails pieces from the 1920's and 30's
Capablanca, Euwe, Sultan Khan...Elaine Saunders. Interesting reads.

https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/win ... ml#CN_8193

Some enterprising chappie from here should write to The Daily Mail offering to do a chess column.
It's easy, hit TWIC, lift something interesting, chop the words around a bit, add anecdote, give game.

User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by John Upham » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:58 am

Thanks to Stephen Wright (Vancouver) and Leonard I wrote:
We did our research (thanks Stephen Wright of Vancouver and Leonard Barden of The Guardian and The Financial Times) and it turns out The Daily Mail had a chess column from 14/11/1906 until 1908 edited by James Mortimer.  From 08/10/1919 until 04/05/1920 the editor was R.C. Griffith and finally from 14/10/27 until 1935 it was edited by  W. Hatton-Ward. Possibly in the 1970s Bill Hartston had a column but this is to be confirmed.
:D
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 5205
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm

I think that Hartston did some stuff for the Mail on Sunday (though of course that didn't exist until the early 80s)?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

User avatar
Paul Robert Jackson
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:10 pm

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Paul Robert Jackson » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:25 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm
I think that Hartston did some stuff for the Mail on Sunday (though of course that didn't exist until the early 80s)?
.......he wrote for the Mail on Sunday Magazine to the best of my knowledge.
I remember an article about a match between Lancaster Chess Club & the Moor Hospital.
I think the match took place shortly after WW2.
Paul Robert Jackson

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:39 pm

Hi John,

Read review. Thought the cover was a bit bland but paying Netflix to stick Beth Harmon on the cover
would have stretched the Mail purse strings. (Play Like Beth vid's are out there, even a Beth app.)

I too pine for the paperbacks. 'Chess Mind' by Abrahams & 'Middle Game' by Kotov and Keres to name just a few.
Think of all the paperbacks the best piece advice I got was from Harry Golombek who said in his
'Game of Chess' that 2nd hand shops were a good source for out of print chess books.
I never walk past a junk/charity/2nd hand shop without looking at what they have.

Talking of price, one point with the reviews at that site. https://britishchessnews.com/2021/04/2 ... kWbfdocWfI

The price is never or rarely mentioned. Prices were quoted for the BCF yearbook due to discounts for members
but cannot recall seeing a price by any of the reviewers.
Is it a policy not to show the price or is it deemed unimportant.

User avatar
John Upham
Posts: 7179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:29 am
Location: Cove, Hampshire, England.
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by John Upham » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:46 pm

Geoff's point about price is a good one which I will investigate. Since the advent of Amazon, eBay and the like I've wondered how useful it is to quote the RRP.

If the Net Book Agreement was in force (it was abandoned in March 1997) then quoting prices would have greater merit.

Nonetheless, I will quote RRPs from now on so thanks Geoff.

Quoting the price for the ECY Yearbook seemed appropriate since the only retailer for the Yearbook is the ECF and they do not have a track record of offering discounts or eventually offering "remaindered" stock so I did not see price variance as an issue.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
Twitter: @BritishChess
Facebook: facebook.com/groups/britishchess :D

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:46 pm

Hi John,

I figured it might be because if you surf about you can get different prices.

On Monday Nicky is allowing the shops open, I was going to burn a book token to get the wife a Millers Price guide. (£27.99)
But when I suggested it she went online and pick one up (free P & P) for £20.00. It has arrived already.

I always support the shops and very rarely buy online (the charity shops I frequent are not online :D )
The last online book being the Soltis book on Carlsen which I bought online after reading a review by Richard James
on the British Chess News site. I cannot recall the one before then. (down to last few games in the Carlsen book - it's good.)

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3732
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:27 pm

Ken Whyld's Chess Columns A List, gives:
Daily Mail
London, U.K. Language English. 1896. Publ. daily. Chess Wed., later Friday.
Chess columns 14/11/1906-00/00/1908: & 08/10/1919-04-05/1920: & 14/10/1927 - 00/00/1935: & later
Editors(s): Mortimer, James 06-; Griffith, R. C. 19-; Hatton Ward W 14/10/27-31/1/1930
Notes: Chess under "Our Chess Circle". Not 1/26. Probably restart in 1927 (AJG)
Source m1/798; m2/885; BCF 1933 (Winter months only)
Ref. m1 is H.J.R. Murray list 1898. MS in Bodleian library
Ref. m2 is H.J.R. Murray list c. 1938, with notes by Buschke

Also:
Mail on Sunday
London, U.K. Language English.
Chess columns 00/00/1982
Editors(s): Hartston, W. R 82-87
Source: Lloyds Bank 85-6-8
Ref. Lloyds Bank was a mailing list.

Tim Harding
Posts: 2318
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Tim Harding » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:59 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:27 pm
Ken Whyld's Chess Columns A List, gives:
Daily Mail
London, U.K. Language English. 1896. Publ. daily. Chess Wed., later Friday.
Chess columns 14/11/1906-00/00/1908: & 08/10/1919-04-05/1920: & 14/10/1927 - 00/00/1935: & later
Editors(s): Mortimer, James 06-; Griffith, R. C. 19-; Hatton Ward W 14/10/27-31/1/1930
Notes: Chess under "Our Chess Circle". Not 1/26. Probably restart in 1927 (AJG)
Source m1/798; m2/885; BCF 1933 (Winter months only)
Ref. m1 is H.J.R. Murray list 1898. MS in Bodleian library
Ref. m2 is H.J.R. Murray list c. 1938, with notes by Buschke
Thanks for that but actually Tony Gillam told me he found no chess in 1929. Perhaps he stopped looking after that.
Hatton-Ward had a major column in The Referee (a Sunday paper) which I read for many years when researching my history of correspondence chess; I haven't looked at the Daily Mail in the 1930s.

Clearly the 1898 Murray list cannot be a source for a column starting in 1906. Actually "1898" was probably a misreading of Whyld's notes.
This list is MS HJ Murray 98 in the Bodleian. It's a typed list with MS corrections and addenda, of unclear date, probably around 1915 according to my ancient notes. Murray also left a card index of columns (MS HJ Murray 99) which is probably of later date and a few other columns are mentioned in a list in MS HJ Murray 100.
The 1938 document is in Cleveland Ohio.
Tim Harding
Historian and FIDE Arbiter

Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 5821
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:52 pm

"I never walk past a junk/charity/2nd hand shop without looking at what they have."

Geoff's right. I'm currently living fairly near to Somerset's "Bookbarn". Two things must you know about the Bookbarn, (1) it's a former barn, and (2) it has a vast array of second-hand books, many of which sell for 50 p or £1. (There's also a posh section with rare first-editions etc.) I expended a small amount on an old score book, full of games. The owner did not bother to put his name in it, but at some stage I'll put all the games on Chessbase and try to work out who he was. None of the names was familiar to me.

Geoff Chandler
Posts: 3486
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Under Cover
Contact:

Re: The Daily Mail & chess?

Post by Geoff Chandler » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:48 pm

Hi Kevin,

Five or six 2nd hand shops give me a call when 'new' chess books arrive.

I met the owner of a 2nd hand shop last month that has been shut a year. They said they have over 50 'new' chess books
and will opening next month. The average price is £2-£3, hopefully, and I mean this, I'll have most of them.

Score Books.
I was desperate for games of 'non-stars' for The Corner, Scottish Chess, League Bulletins and the occasionally Newspaper.
I use to borrow (steal) them at congress's/tournament/league matches, glean of a few games and give them back.
I got in PGN entering because it was the only way to get games of the lower rated players, the real soul of the game, into print.
I found some wonderful flawed gems of creativity that would never have seen another chessboard. (not master pieces - disaster pieces.)

Sorry John,

A thread hijack. But hopefully the rest of the boys have given you everything you wanted to know.

Post Reply