Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Tim Spanton
Posts: 1204
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am
Contact:

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Tim Spanton » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:26 am

Looking at the list of entries https://northumbriamasters.com/entries/ it is interesting to see the disparities between people's Fide ratings and their ECF ratings (and I am not including those who appear to believe they still have a three-figure [two-figure in one case] grade)

User avatar
Joey Stewart
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:35 pm
Location: All Of Them
Contact:

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Joey Stewart » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:09 pm

Yes, seeing it laid out like that shows just how badly deflated fide ratings are now - I remember back in the day when an 1800 rated player would be about 130-140ecf and yet now you can even get people with that fide who are more like 190-200 strength!

Of course, the 'deniers' will still try and claim there is no such thing happening...
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

Tim Spanton
Posts: 1204
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:35 am
Contact:

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Tim Spanton » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:49 pm

Going through the numbers again, there seem to be just two instances where a player's Fide is higher than his ECF

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:01 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:49 pm
Going through the numbers again, there seem to be just two instances where a player's Fide is higher than his ECF
That was much the same at the recent 4NCL Congress. The example I can think of where the FIDE rating is likely to exceed the ECF one is where someone has been mostly or completely inactive in internationally rated chess but sufficiently active in domestic chess to have a rating reflecting current strength. Entrants to the 4NCL Congress mostly seemed drawn from those who had been weekend regulars up to February or March 2020.

Paul Cooksey
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:04 pm

ECF ratings started about 100 points higher than FIDE. Seems to be the way with most national ratings so everyone can delude themselves they are underrated. Except me, obviously, I am really 2350.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:59 pm

As this 100 point differential seems generally accepted, shouldn't entry requirements reflect this: Ie players must be rated both U1900 Fide & 2000 ECF or U2000 Fide & 2100 ECF.

As it is players are told they must be rated under 2 different grading levels.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:08 pm

A quirk of the Northumbria Masters entry fees are that players with a very niche rating configuration are being unfairly penalised.

If rated under 2000 ecf - £50 entry to the challengers
If rated over 2000 ecf - £80 entry to the open
If rated over 2000 ecf & Under 2000 Fide - £100 entry to the open.

I happen to fall into this category and so have to pay more than every other player in the tournament to play.
I was about to enter, but now will not on principle as the organiser will not amend this.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Wadih Khoury » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:15 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:08 pm
A quirk of the Northumbria Masters entry fees are that players with a very niche rating configuration are being unfairly penalised.

If rated under 2000 ecf - £50 entry to the challengers
If rated over 2000 ecf - £80 entry to the open
If rated over 2000 ecf & Under 2000 Fide - £100 entry to the open.

I happen to fall into this category and so have to pay more than every other player in the tournament to play.
I was about to enter, but now will not on principle as the organiser will not amend this.
I am finding this pricing configuration quite common, especially on the continent.
I guess it is to dissuade lower rated players to play in the highest category without having an outright minimum grade requirement, which presumably allows to attract more higher rated players.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:01 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:15 pm
I am finding this pricing configuration quite common, especially on the continent.
They use ECF ratings on the continent?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:17 pm

Wadih Khoury wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:15 pm
I am finding this pricing configuration quite common, especially on the continent.
I guess it is to dissuade lower rated players to play in the highest category without having an outright minimum grade requirement, which presumably allows to attract more higher rated players.
I think it's perfectly fine to charge players more who are choosing to play in the higher section, but in this instance they are charging more to players who have no option but to play in the section. Thereby penalising a tiny subset of players for no good reason.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 3543
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:33 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:17 pm
I think it's perfectly fine to charge players more who are choosing to play in the higher section, but in this instance they are charging more to players who have no option but to play in the section. Thereby penalising a tiny subset of players for no good reason.
It's actually about 20% of the current list of entrants,so not so tiny.

If you're running a tournament where you hope to give players a decent chance of getting norms then discouraging players with low FIDE ratings is a good thing to do, particularly if they have much higher ECF ratings than FIDE ratings. That may indicate their true strength is more than their current FIDE rating and make it more difficult than it should be for an opponent to get a norm.

Wadih Khoury
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Wadih Khoury » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:55 pm

Nick Burrows wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:17 pm
Wadih Khoury wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:15 pm
I am finding this pricing configuration quite common, especially on the continent.
I guess it is to dissuade lower rated players to play in the highest category without having an outright minimum grade requirement, which presumably allows to attract more higher rated players.
I think it's perfectly fine to charge players more who are choosing to play in the higher section, but in this instance they are charging more to players who have no option but to play in the section. Thereby penalising a tiny subset of players for no good reason.
Ok thanks, I missed the subset of > 2000 ECF and <2000 FIDE.

Nick Burrows
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Nick Burrows » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:57 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:33 pm
It's actually about 20% of the current list of entrants,so not so tiny.
I didn't realise it was so many - So unfairly penalising 1/5 of entrants
Ian Thompson wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:33 pm
If you're running a tournament where you hope to give players a decent chance of getting norms then discouraging players with low FIDE ratings is a good thing to do, particularly if they have much higher ECF ratings than FIDE ratings. That may indicate their true strength is more than their current FIDE rating and make it more difficult than it should be for an opponent to get a norm.
That's fair enough, but why then force this rabble into a section where they are not wanted. An U2000 Fide / U2100 Ecf limit for the Challengers is perfectly reasonable. The Challengers limit in Douglas is 2100 Fide.

Giving an arbritary section of players no option but to pay more money to play any chess is clearly unfair and discouraging.

If rated 1999 Fide 1999 Ecf entry fee £50.
Rated 1999 Fide 2000 Ecf entry fee £100

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 21291
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Northumbria Masters, 26-30 August, 2021

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:04 pm

With over two weeks to go to the start of the tournament it appears that capacity limits have been reached.

https://northumbriamasters.com/2021-ent ... ting-list/
Thanks to an impressive total of 160 entries for the Masters (Open), Challengers (Under 2000), Major (Under 1750) and Minor (Under 1500) tournaments, we have now reached the maximum capacity for players in the public events at the Marriott MetroCentre.

Post Reply