Digital clock repairs

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri May 14, 2021 11:42 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:30 am
The objection to the first approach is that it relies on the players pressing the clock after every move. If they forget, or press it twice for some reason, the time will be added after the wrong number of moves.

That's compounded by a design which doesn't show the number of presses on the face of the clock. In an event with an evening session of three hours or less, why have an intermediate time control?

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Adam Raoof » Fri May 14, 2021 11:47 am

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:39 am
Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 12:47 am
With Richmond Juniors, I am now exploring how best (i.e. cost effectively) to upgrade our stock of digital clocks to DGT 3000s and to acquire digital boards for use in our tournaments. They have dropped in price, and the cabling involved has become a little easier with the availability of USB and Bluetooth options. I would be delighted if the ECF were to institute some sort of finance scheme or bulk purchase to help clubs furnish themselves with electronic boards - who knows maybe some passing ECF bod might read this and pick up on the idea (I would certainly vote for someone standing on such a platform).
Is there a particular reason for DGT 3000s rather than DGT 2010s? I ask as I am using receipts from the junior rapid plays I am running currently to build up an equipment stock to avoid having to borrow too much, and I am wondering if there is a reason to justify the extra £20 a time for a DGT 3000.
Unless you are going to connect your clocks to live boards, and you don't care about the display only showing seconds below 20 minutes, I would say the DGT2010 is almost perfect. You can also get them relatively cheap. If you switch to 3000s then you also have to acclimatise yourself to the numbers of the options, which change between models. Also, beware of older 2010s which can have a very slight programming issue, the newer models with blue buttons are fine.
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Alex McFarlane
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Alex McFarlane » Fri May 14, 2021 12:13 pm

The cheaper DGTs should not be considered for competition play.

If money is limited the Leap clock may be worth considering. There is a FIDE approved version.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri May 14, 2021 10:02 pm

Joseph Conlon wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:39 am

Is there a particular reason for DGT 3000s rather than DGT 2010s? I ask as I am using receipts from the junior rapid plays I am running currently to build up an equipment stock to avoid having to borrow too much, and I am wondering if there is a reason to justify the extra £20 a time for a DGT 3000.
DGT 2010s are fine clocks, they provide all the time controls used in current English and FIDE competition, operate to FIDE standards and are a FIDE approved model. Not only do they provide the necessary functionality for most purposes, but they are relatively robust, too. They aren't cheap, but you should get at least 10 years from them before needing repaired or replaced.

However, DGT 2010s do not support use with an electronic board. If you have any plans to provide real-time displays for boards during tournaments that you hold, then you will need to equip that number of boards with DGT 3000s instead.

At Richmond Juniors, we have about 50 DGT EasyPlus clocks and 140 DGT 2010s. Of the EasyPlus clocks, about 40 currently work, which seems quite a high mortality rate, but they have had fairly constant use and abuse by kids for about six or seven years. It would be interesting to hear from others of their attrition rates.

Before the lockdown we had purchased 10 DGT 3000s, which is based on our plans to purchase those and 10 DGT USB Smart Boards, with the necessary cabling kits, for the next few years, so that we can broadcast live games starting in the top sections of our tournaments. Our current planning for equipment is to hand out working EasyPlus clocks to various schools, whilst keeping some for everyday club use by our Beginners & Novices and our Intermediate players, and replacing the EasyPlus clocks in use by our Advanced students with 2010s. Our adult tournaments will use the 2010s exclusively, whilst in our junior tournaments we will continue to use our dwindling stock of EasyPlus clocks in the youngest sections only. The 3000s and Smartboards will get rolled out from the top boards of our tournaments, and then on downwards over time.

Budgeting for equipment is one of the big expenses of any large chess organisation, as I am sure you are aware. And the insurance hurts, too.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri May 14, 2021 10:12 pm

Alex McFarlane wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 12:13 pm
The cheaper DGTs should not be considered for competition play.
Alex presumably means by this that the DGT EasyPlus clocks support only support time controls with single time periods, with or without a delay or the addition of an increment. Therefore they will require manual adjustment (like the old analogue clocks) if needed to support time controls with two or three time periods, such as the standard FIDE time control of 90/40 + 30/game + 30 seconds increment throughout.

Obviously that should not preclude them from use in clubs and leagues where people are used to adjusting analogue clocks after the time control has been reached.

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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri May 14, 2021 10:16 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:58 am

Yes the ticking and the that it just looks a lot nicer. Also I don't trust the digital clocks after 34 moves as the time doesn't seem to go back. Some let you run out of time and then add it. You can't ask anyone during a game as you should be quiet at all times.

Another good thing about the flag is that you don't quite know when it going to drop so adds to the suspense.

Finally I've found that after 34 moves in a drawish position, the stopping of the clocks to wind them back 15 or 20 mins is a good time to catch your opponent's eye and decide on a draw. This never happens with the digital ones as we just plough on into your next thought or next move.
You can use a digital clock in exactly this fashion, should you want to. Set it to the time control, record your moves, reach the time control and agree that with your opponent. Offer her a cup of tea and a draw, then adjust the time on the clock after your draw offer has been turned down. With something basic such as the DGT EasyPlus, the controls are entirely obvious, even to a dinosaurian hold-out from the analogue era.

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Wed May 19, 2021 10:08 am

34 moves is when the time control happens, extra time added after that amount of moves.

if the clock is mis pressed then the clock won't know it's supposed to add the time at 34 moves, or it will add it too soon if double pressed.


wind up clocks don't have this problem and a short break to wind the clock back and, as I said, short moment to perhaps offer a draw.

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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed May 19, 2021 6:38 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:08 am
if the clock is mis pressed then the clock won't know it's supposed to add the time at 34 moves, or it will add it too soon if double pressed.

wind up clocks don't have this problem and a short break to wind the clock back and, as I said, short moment to perhaps offer a draw.
Kevin, as I explained above, you can use digital clocks in exactly the same manner as you are used to using analogue clocks. Only with the added benefits that the time-keeping should be more accurate, you can set the time control exactly, both players will know exactly how much time is left, and you can set innovative time controls and keep up with developments as you become more confident in the use of the new clocks.

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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 6:38 pm
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:08 am
if the clock is mis pressed then the clock won't know it's supposed to add the time at 34 moves, or it will add it too soon if double pressed.

wind up clocks don't have this problem and a short break to wind the clock back and, as I said, short moment to perhaps offer a draw.
Kevin, as I explained above, you can use digital clocks in exactly the same manner as you are used to using analogue clocks. Only with the added benefits that the time-keeping should be more accurate, you can set the time control exactly, both players will know exactly how much time is left, and you can set innovative time controls and keep up with developments as you become more confident in the use of the new clocks.
hi. I'm afraid it's not like for like. There is no stop after the 34 moves as the clock is auto adjusted.

We don't want to know exactly how much time we have, we want to see the flag rise or hanging. It's part of chess and not knowing exactly when it's going to go.

If something goes wrong with a digital clock then there's no one to ask during a game as I'd rather not disturb anyone. Very easy to fix the others, just wind it up or adjust it. accidental press won't matter unlike the digital ones.

We don't need these digital clocks unless it's increments.

NickFaulks
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by NickFaulks » Fri May 21, 2021 9:05 am

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't want to know exactly how much time we have
This could be the start of a whole new topic.
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Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Fri May 21, 2021 2:35 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 9:05 am
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't want to know exactly how much time we have
This could be the start of a whole new topic.
yup lol.

Chess isn't exactly the most exciting game on the planet but the hanging flags are pretty good.

I do also like the increment/delay but for long games or rapid games would prefer an analogue clock.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Paul McKeown » Fri May 21, 2021 8:07 pm

Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
There is no stop after the 34 moves as the clock is auto adjusted.
Analogue clocks don't stop and auto-adjust after 34 moves, either. You're babbling.
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't want to know exactly how much time we have
That's an interesting use of the Royal We.
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
we want to see the flag rise or hanging.

It's part of chess and not knowing exactly when it's going to go.
Errr. No. A chequered board of 64 squares is part of chess. Some cheap thrill caused by rising and falling is more normally regarded as a fetish by tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper.
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't need these digital clocks unless it's increments.
That's another interesting use of the Royal We.

Kevin O'Rourke
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Kevin O'Rourke » Tue May 25, 2021 9:11 am

Paul McKeown wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:07 pm
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
There is no stop after the 34 moves as the clock is auto adjusted.
Analogue clocks don't stop and auto-adjust after 34 moves, either. You're babbling.
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't want to know exactly how much time we have
That's an interesting use of the Royal We.
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
we want to see the flag rise or hanging.

It's part of chess and not knowing exactly when it's going to go.
Errr. No. A chequered board of 64 squares is part of chess. Some cheap thrill caused by rising and falling is more normally regarded as a fetish by tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper.
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't need these digital clocks unless it's increments.
That's another interesting use of the Royal We.
that's my point. you have to stop and adjust them which is a GOOD thing.

NickFaulks
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by NickFaulks » Tue May 25, 2021 9:15 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 9:05 am
Kevin O'Rourke wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 8:59 am
We don't want to know exactly how much time we have
This could be the start of a whole new topic.
I've had a thought. Would chess be more fun if clocks didn't actually show the times at all, just informed you when someone has run out of it?
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

Wadih Khoury
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Re: Digital clock repairs

Post by Wadih Khoury » Tue May 25, 2021 9:17 am

One of the main points of chess is that it is a game with perfect information. I do not see the point of limiting on purpose the information available to players.

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