English Chess Forum

Greetings. In the concurrent Goldmoney Asian classic, I noticed that Carlsen lost to Alireza in the first round, and then saw that GM Danny King posted a video about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uosrERHGN74

I have to admit, I don't recall the last time I saw the world champion be outplayed like that. It looked to me like he was caught out both strategically and tactically in different phases of the game. Am I wrong? It made me wonder whether the game was telling in anyway, and whether its really only a matter of time before teenager Alireza, dethrones Carlsen. Have you looked at this game and drawn any conclusions from it? What are they? My feeling is that it tells us who the next world champion will be although saying when is much harder, not within the next five years I think.

Well, the annotations on ChessBase don't really support that characterization of the game.

I'd say his Firouzja's chances of becoming the next world champion are not zero, but pretty low. His chances of becoming world champion at some point are rather higher.

I started thinking along those lines when Alireza won that banter blitz match a while ago. Only banter blitz, I know, but Magnus didn't want to lose it.

IM Jack Rudd wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:35 am

Well, the annotations on ChessBase don't really support that characterization of the game.

I'd say his Firouzja's chances of becoming the next world champion are not zero, but pretty low. His chances of becoming world champion at some point are rather higher.

Doesn't support or contradict it I would say. I think King's account of the game is more reliable. Carlsen doesn't often have mating threats hovering over him and has to resign because of them. Usually when he loses he's only worse, and usually not by much.

Some random thoughts on World Chess Champions (I just realised the other day that Karpov never won a World Championship match - do I have that right?). I was wondering how many people have become World Chess Champion after first losing as a Challenger - i.e. getting all the way to challenging the incumbent? (Anand is one, there must be others.)

Spassky springs to mind as well as Smyslov.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:19 pm

(I just realised the other day that Karpov never won a World Championship match - do I have that right?).

Are you not missing out the second two of the three matches with Korchnoi?

The infamous Korchnoi match. Blue yoghurt means offer a draw lol

Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:48 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:19 pm

(I just realised the other day that Karpov never won a World Championship match - do I have that right?).

Are you not missing out the second two of the three matches with Korchnoi?

Yes, I forgot that. For some reason I thought Fischer conceded the title and then Kasparov came along. My apologies to Korchnoi (who I hope might have chuckled, or at least growled grumpily, at being forgotten!).

He may have turned in his grave. It could be argued he wasn't stiff competition but I think that's unfair or inaccurate. At his best Korchnoi was world class. In terms of character, perhaps not!

Nick Ivell wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:32 pm

Spassky springs to mind as well as Smyslov.

Smyslov tied his first match with Botvinnik so only failed on a technicality. Smyslov could be included on your list, though, on the basis of the 1948 championship tournament but that had other competitors.
Also Kasparov technically did not lose his first match with Karpov.

I am away from home with no reference books, but from memory the class of players who became world champion only after losing their first world championship challenge match has only two members: Spassky and Anand.

Yes Tim, Spassky and Anand.

I'm trying to think of a way to add in Botvinnik, he won the title twice as the challenger ( v Smyslov and Tal ) after losing it.

Karpov lost four FIDE W.C. matches (one on draw odds) before winning it back v Timman in 1993. (does that count?)

Returning to the points posed, does anyone attach significance the manner of this loss of Carlsen's. Personally I think he was outclassed. Is it only me who thinks that bearing in mind that rating points weren't in play and perhaps, just perhaps, Carlsen wasn't taking it so seriously?

Just skipped though the game at Chess Bomb. Typical Rapid Game where one player takes a gamble (Alireza) using the clock
and activity v position. Perfect Rapid/blitz policy, the chances in such cases are always 50-50 till the Fat Lady sings.

Carlsen ignored the activity and then a wee bit of doubt crept in and understandably over estimated the activity.
That Chess Bomb computer rates 34...h4 here ....

8/kprN2p1/p1Pp4/3Pp2p/2R1Pn2/8/PP2r3/1K4R1 b - - 0 34

...as 3.39 (which apparently is good) So up to here Black was doing fine, hardly a sign of a player getting outclassed.

Carlsen was down to 40 seconds (Alireza was 26 seconds) Carlsen spent 32 precious seconds rejecting 34...h4.not allowing a Rook
on the 7th when all kinds of demons pop up v the White King. Rule of Thumb takes over from pure calculation and played 34...g6.

That moment of doubt was all Alireza's activity needed, Nxe5 ideas had been on the table for a few moves.
He kept his nerve timing it right a couple moves later and won a good activity v position Rapid game.

Full game. Alireza is White.

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. d3 d6 5. f4 Nc6 6. Nf3 a6 7. Bb3 h6 8. Qe2 Bg4 9. fxe5 dxe5 10. Be3 Nd4 11. Qf2 Bxf3 12. gxf3 Nh5 13. O-O-O Nf4 14. Kb1 Nxb3 15. Bxc5 Nxc5 16. Qxc5 Qd6 17. Qxd6 cxd6 18. d4 O-O-O 19. Rd2 Ne6 20. Ne2 Rhf8 21. d5 Ng5 22. Rd3 Nh3 23. Rc1 f5 24. c4 fxe4 25. fxe4 Rf2 26. Nc3 Rxh2 27. c5 Nf4 28. Rdd1 Kb8 29. c6 Rc8 30. Na4 Re2 31. Nb6 Rc7 32. Nd7+ Ka7 33. Rc4 h5 34. Rg1 g6 35. a4 h4 36. b4 b6 37. b5 a5 38. Nxe5 h3 39. Rh1 Nxd5 40. Nxg6 Ne3 41. Rc3 Ng4 42. Nf4 Rxe4 43. Nd5 Nf2 44. Nxc7 Nxh1 45. Rxh3 1-0

Edit. I am going to do my grumpy old man bit again (I'm 70 tomorrow so cut me some slack.)
If anybody is going to talk about a game then please post it here rather than hope that the post reader
takes the time to go searching for it. BAH!

I hope you get an Upham tribute, Geoff.

Anyway, happy birthday in case I forget to log in tomorrow...