Chess Covid regulations poll

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How should chess competitions draft their rules for concerns about covid?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:32 am

1. Meet all concerns of those worried about virus transmission
4
11%
2. Bias towards those who are concerned about virus transmission, even if some of those concerned about personal freedom drop out
15
42%
3. Maximise participation
11
31%
4. Bias towards those who are concerned about personal freedom, even if some of those concerned about virus transmission drop out
4
11%
5. Meet all concerns of those worried about personal freedom
2
6%
 
Total votes: 36

Paul Cooksey
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Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Paul Cooksey » Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:32 am

I think there is a tension between those who want to minimise risk of covid transmission when chess resumes, and those who want to avoid restrictions on their personal freedom (such as playing in a mask or demonstrating their vaccination status).

I tried to draft the question as neutrally as I could. But invariably when someone starts a poll, there is a discussion on whether the right question is being asked, so feel free to give your view on that too!

I'm probably willing to play under any conditions, I don't mind wearing a mask or sharing my vaccination status, I don't mind if my opponent does or does not. But I'm voting 2, based on my view of which of the groups I disagree with I am more sympathetic towards

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John Upham
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by John Upham » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:07 am

I'm curious to know the reasons that anyone who had been been vaccinated would be reticent to share their status?

I've had two AZ doses and am looking forward to collecting the whole set apart from the Russian and Chinese ones.
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:15 am

John Upham wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:07 am
I'm curious to know the reasons that anyone who had been been vaccinated would be reticent to share their status?
I think it's more likely to be people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, without any medical condition making it unwise, that would be reluctant to disclose that.

Joseph Conlon
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Joseph Conlon » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:22 am

John Upham wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:07 am
I'm curious to know the reasons that anyone who had been been vaccinated would be reticent to share their status?

I've had two AZ doses and am looking forward to collecting the whole set apart from the Russian and Chinese ones.
I have also now had two doses, but in most circumstances would resist the idea that this information (or any other medical information) is something that there should be any obligation to share, due to general concern about precedents and hard cases making bad law.

J T Melsom
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:22 am

I just don't accept that chess organisations have the authority to ask for and then publish medical information from players, even if I'm personally happy to confirm my vaccine status whether for COVID or the annual flu jab. If a passport scheme were adopted nationally that might be different, but chess clubs are not an agency of the state.

And I also am prepared to continue to wear a mask, throw open the windows, provide hand sanitiser etc if that provides comfort. Just not offer information about the health status of my players.

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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:24 am

I want to vote for 3 & 5. I understand why there are players whose lives remain dominated by fear of Covid, and I am not saying that is irrational, but I strongly suspect that on the day they will decide that, whatever measures are in place, they are uncomfortable at the prospect of spending an evening in a room with sixty other people - or travelling there on public transport, or whatever. I don't criticise them for it, but they will just decide it is safer to stay at home and maybe play online.

I have advocated that such questions should be tested by having some pubs and restaurants which retain social distancing rules* and others which have scrapped them. The problem is that proprietors of the first group will be hard to find, since they are well enough in tune with their actual regulars ( not to be confused with Government opinion polls ) to know that they will quickly go out of business. The same thoughts apply to chess clubs, but I could be wrong and it would be a valuable experiment.

*and any of the assortment of other rules which have been or might be suggested.
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:32 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:24 am
I want to vote for 3 & 5. I understand why there are players whose lives remain dominated by fear of Covid, and I am not saying that is irrational, but I strongly suspect that on the day they will decide that, whatever measures are in place, they are uncomfortable at the prospect of spending an evening in a room with sixty other people - or travelling there on public transport, or whatever. I don't criticise them for it, but they will just decide it is safer to stay at home and maybe play online.
I'm not personally scared of Covid at all this point (being double vaccinated & objectively very low demographic risk to start with). But you can still spread the thing when fully vaccinated and wouldn't want other people on my conscience.

There's isolation too - with the way the Gov has seemingly chosen to go - the infection rates over the next couple of months are going to be such that if you're in a large group you'll have a very strong chance of you being forced to isolate afterwards.
(Assuming the testing keeps up at all, which it very likely won't.).

Then its likely it'll settle down again, hopefully/basically for good. Maybe in time for the serious chess season to be starting.

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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:42 am

John Upham wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:07 am
I'm curious to know the reasons that anyone who had been been vaccinated would be reticent to share their status?
There are still some people who are not in the habit of giving out their personal medical details to the world and do not wish to go down that road.

Also, what about people who have not been vaccinated for valid health reasons? I assume you would let them play, although that is not logical. Would you say "ah, tell us more about your medical condition"?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:46 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:24 am
The same thoughts apply to chess clubs, but I could be wrong and it would be a valuable experiment.
The same applies to Chess Congresses. In terms of rules you might hope this weekend's 4NCL is an exception given the changes due in a couple of weeks. I'm still not quite sure how they have managed to evade "the rule of six".

Matt Bridgeman
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by Matt Bridgeman » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:47 am

I wonder how much it will calm down over the next 12 months. It’s claimed 10-15% who catch covid will get long covid in some form or other. If we head to 2000 cases per day admitted to hospital in the height of summer, just how many will it actually be in the dead of winter? Labour certainly believe the government knows there will be winter lockdowns again. That would put plenty of events such as Hastings as high risk of not running. I certainly worry about the unvaccinated under 18’s playing people no doubt opting for no masks. I’ve got a 15 year old who doesn’t want to play over the board until the case rate goes right down. It does seem we’re all in a big experiment at present.

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John Upham
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by John Upham » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 am

Are we concluding (maybe erroneously?) that it is more likely that those who have not been vaccinated for philosophical reasons are less likely to share their Covid-19 status?

I'm not so sure. Are they not more likely to wish to evangelise their reasoning?

The people who really get my sympathy are those who wish to be vaccinated but their immune system is not capable of generating antigens from that vaccination.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:00 am

Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:47 am
I’ve got a 15 year old who doesn’t want to play over the board until the case rate goes right down.
The risk to herself is minimal, so I assume she is sacrificing her chess for the benefit of people like me. It is a generous act but I really, really wish she wouldn't. Our young people have suffered enough and need to get their lives back.
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NickFaulks
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by NickFaulks » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:02 am

John Upham wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 am
The people who really get my sympathy are those who wish to be vaccinated but their immune system is not capable of generating antigens from that vaccination.
About whom you have not answered my question above.
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MartinCarpenter
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by MartinCarpenter » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:04 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:00 am
Matt Bridgeman wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:47 am
I’ve got a 15 year old who doesn’t want to play over the board until the case rate goes right down.
The risk to herself is minimal, so I assume she is sacrificing her chess for the benefit of people like me. It is a generous act but I really, really wish she wouldn't. Our young people have suffered enough and need to get their lives back.
No. Its for their own peace of mind. The idea of having potentially infected/killed people is really not a remotely fun thing to live with.

J T Melsom
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Re: Chess Covid regulations poll

Post by J T Melsom » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:11 am

Well said Martin. I've been puzzled as to why the mental health impact of bereavement has been downplayed by so many during the pandemic.

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