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Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
by Joey Stewart
The post earlier today about saddler getting to the number 1 spot in England got me thinking, it feels like ages since we last had anyone get the GM title - possibly as long back as when Jonathan Hawkins got his.
I wondered who might be the next to get the big one since there are lots of up and coming players who have for one reason or another all missed it- after a great British you would think Marcus Harvey probably but he has still not even got an IM title despite playing at Level equal to or above that, so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title it might still be a few years.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:40 am
by Roger de Coverly
Joey Stewart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
The post earlier today about saddler getting to the number 1 spot in England got me thinking,it feels like ages since we last had anyone
England's performance at the European Championship in 2021 was forgettable but it did include Ravi Haria gaining the 2 or 3 Elo points he needed to reach 2500 and thus gain the title. This was after a series of Norms over the summer. Fernandez was the other player to become a GM relatively recently. Admittedly he's mostly been in Australia since gaining the title.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:03 am
by MJMcCready
So England is not likely to be the force it has been for a few decades now in the not too distant future?
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:03 am
by NickFaulks
Joey Stewart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title
I cannot even guess what that might mean.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:20 am
by Ian Thompson
NickFaulks wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:03 am
Joey Stewart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title
I cannot even guess what that might mean.
I would suggest a mistaken belief that either:
- You can't become a GM without first being an IM
- That a GM norm that is used to claim an IM title can't also subsequently be used to claim a GM title
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:33 am
by Matt Bridgeman
Marcus Harvey I believe is entirely self-coached and possibly always has been. Out of interest are there many GMs who avoided the years of expensive chess coaching and took the DIY approach?
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:40 am
by LawrenceCooper
Joey Stewart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:29 am
The post earlier today about saddler getting to the number 1 spot in England got me thinking, it feels like ages since we last had anyone get the GM title - possibly as long back as when Jonathan Hawkins got his.
I wondered who might be the next to get the big one since there are lots of up and coming players who have for one reason or another all missed it- after a great British you would think Marcus Harvey probably but he has still not even got an IM title despite playing at Level equal to or above that, so unless he is allowed to skip the IM title it might still be a few years.
Marcus had his IM title application approved by FIDE, see the bottom of his FIDE profile:
https://ratings.fide.com/profile/400092 I think it's about 60 days from the award before he officially becomes an IM in terms of opponents playing him.
Ravi Haria has a GM title application submitted to FIDE.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:01 am
by John Upham
In 2021 there have been four FIDE playing titles awarded to English players:
Peter Markland (FM)
Richard McMichael (FM)
Ravi Haria (GM: subject to ratification)
Marcus Harvey (IM: subject to ratification)
In 2017 we had
Daniel Fernandez (GM)
In 2014 we had
Jonathan Hawkins (GM)
in 2009 we had
Stephen Gordon (GM)
So, four GMs in twelve years.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:00 pm
by Chris Goodall
MJMcCready wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:03 am
So England is not likely to be the force it has been for a few decades now in the not too distant future?
Not necessarily, everyone could have realised that the GM title is an expensive piece of paper, the main purpose of which is to assist other people in buying the same piece of paper.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:45 pm
by John Upham
Between 1976 and 1985 there were nine English GMs making it one per annum on average.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:01 pm
by Roger de Coverly
John Upham wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:01 am
in 2009 we had
Stephen Gordon (GM)
So, four GMs in twelve years.
David Howell and Gawain Jones were 2007.
I think there were a number in the years between 2000 and 2008. Nick Pert and Jonathan Parker were 2001, Matthew Turner (now SCO) 2002
Danny Gormally was 2005 and Simon Williams 2008.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:04 pm
by MJMcCready
Who's better, an IM rated 2505 or a GM rated 2504?
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:06 pm
by Roger de Coverly
Matt Bridgeman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:33 am
Out of interest are there many GMs who avoided the years of expensive chess coaching and took the DIY approach?
I would have thought all the British GMs were to a greater or lesser extent self taught. If it was that easy to become a GM by taking a training course there would be a lot more of them.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:10 pm
by Roger de Coverly
MJMcCready wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:04 pm
Who's better, an IM rated 2505 or a GM rated 2504?
In terms of playing strength as demonstrated by results they are identical. You need a gap of 40 Elo points or more to say with some degree of certainty who was the better player. In terms of invitations to Norm tournaments a GM is more valuable than an IM.
Re: Next English GM
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:15 pm
by MJMcCready
But does the presence of GMs increase the entry level of tournaments, generally speaking. As is so often claimed?