English Chess Forum

I always heard this ending dismissed as not being worth bothering with learning as it is a trivial draw, but in recent weeks I have had to defend it a few times in blitz and lost every one so obviously it's nowhere near as straightforward a draw as people like to make out.

I get that you should try and keep your king from being pushed to the edge of the board but beyond that is there any particular method to holding the defence once you do get forced there (i.e. are you needing to have your rook controlling the ranks or the files).

Draw. But you have to be careful: I recall Karpov winning one of these endings against a careless opponent.

Nothing like as difficult as with a bishop. Which only goes to enforce the general rule, that knights are weaker than bishops.

Which gets me thinking about the Ramirez comment about Q & N v Q&B. Well, he knows more about chess than me, but I also recall another Karpov ending which he won, where the only difference was the N v B.

To be clear: this second Karpov ending went against the general rule (because of the queens).

It's very hard for the R+N to make progress if you pin the knight.

I have drawn the weaker side of this, in Prague some years ago. As I recall it was quite a favourable starting position (as it were) and my king never even had to go to the edge of the board.

The Karpov win - I wish I could be more precise - was from a favourable starting position.

But in general, the draw should not be difficult.

Like Joey I thought this was a routine draw. Some old books suggest this (I remembered 'just keep the knight pinned and stay away from the edge').

The only time I played the weaker side I lost, but I still didn't appreciate the subtleties. Chessbase India did a video which gives an idea of the complications ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tsq4BNH0P2E&t=454s ) but there might be clearer explanations elsewhere. Think this one shows Judit Polgar's loss to Kasparov and Karjakin losing (in time pressure).

Keep meaning to work through this properly and an endgame text, but I keep finding something else to do that is more important ...

Nick Ivell wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:21 pm

The Karpov win - I wish I could be more precise - was from a favourable starting position.

This one?

[Event "Olympiad-28"] [Site "Thessaloniki"] [Date "1988.11.29"] [Round "14"] [White "Karpov, Anatoly"] [Black "Ftacnik, Lubomir"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "A30"] [WhiteElo "2725"] [BlackElo "2475"] [Annotator "Nastasio,Davide"] [PlyCount "185"] [EventDate "1988.??.??"] 1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 e6 4. g3 b6 5. Bg2 Bb7 6. O-O Be7 7. d4 cxd4 8. Qxd4 d6 9. Bg5 a6 10. Rfd1 Nbd7 11. Qd2 Qc8 12. b3 O-O 13. Rac1 Rd8 14. Qb2 Qc7 15. a4 Rac8 16. Ne1 Bxg2 17. Nxg2 Ne5 18. Be3 Qb7 19. f3 Nc6 20. Nf4 h6 21. g4 Ne5 22. Bf2 Ne8 23. Bg3 g6 24. Qd2 Bf6 25. Ng2 Kh7 26. Qe3 Bg7 27. Kh1 Nc6 28. Bf2 Rb8 29. Qd2 Ne7 30. e4 Nc6 31. h3 Nc7 32. Ne2 Ne8 33. Nd4 Nxd4 34. Bxd4 Bxd4 35. Qxd4 Qc6 36. Ne3 Qc5 37. Kg2 Qxd4 38. Rxd4 Rdc8 39. Rdd1 Kg7 40. f4 Rb7 41. Rc2 Ra8 42. Ra2 Rba7 43. Rda1 Rc8 44. Kf3 Rb7 45. Rd1 b5 46. Rd3 bxa4 47. Rxa4 Rcb8 48. Ra3 Kf6 49. Nc2 Rb6 50. Ke3 g5 51. b4 gxf4+ 52. Kxf4 Rc6 53. Rdc3 Rbc8 54. Ne3 Nc7 55. Rd3 Ne8 56. Ra5 Rxc4 57. Nxc4 Rxc4 58. Rxa6 Rxb4 59. Ra8 Nc7 60. Ra7 Ne8 61. Rda3 Kg6 62. R7a4 Rb1 63. Rd3 Rb6 64. Kf3 Nf6 65. Rad4 d5 66. exd5 Nxd5 67. Kg3 Rb4 68. Rxb4 Nxb4 69. Rd7 Nd5 70. Kf3 Nf6 71. Ra7 Nh7 72. Kf4 Nf6 73. Ke5 Nd5 74. Ra3 h5 75. gxh5+ Kxh5 76. Rg3 Kh6 77. Kd6 Nf4 78. Ke7 Kh5 79. Kf6 Nd5+ 80. Ke5 Kh4 81. Rf3 Nb6 82. Rxf7 Kxh3 83. Kxe6 Nc4 {[#] Nastasio: Mueller begins to show this diagram, pointing at the distance between the King and the knight.} 84. Rf3+ Kg4 (84... Kg2 {Nastasio: As always when reading a book I ask myself why Black didn't play a certain move. In this case we are lucky, because Karpov showed a line.} 85. Rc3 Na5 86. Kd5 {Nastasio: this line was shown by Karpov in the Informant 46/38.} Nb7 {Karpov gave decisive advantage to White, but I continued a little the line, to show how White would win.} 87. Rc7 Nd8 (87... Na5 88. Ra7 Nb3 89. Ra2+ Kf1 90. Rb2 Na5 91. Rb5 { Nastasio: and the knight cannot escape.}) 88. Rd7 {Nastasio: and now the knight cannot escape anymore.}) 85. Rd3 $1 Kg5 (85... Nb2 {Nastasio: this was another line shown by Karpov.} 86. Rd2 {Nastasio: Now the knight cannot go on the fourth rank, because the rook will fork king and knight.}) 86. Kd5 Nb6+ ( 86... Nb2 87. Rd4 Kf5 88. Kc6 Ke5 89. Kc5 Ke6 90. Kb4 Kf5 (90... Ke5 {Nastasio: in case Black attacks the rook again, now the knight cannot escape.} 91. Rd2) 91. Kb3 Ke5 92. Kc3 {Nastasio: also this line was given by Karpov.}) 87. Ke5 Nc4+ 88. Ke4 Nb6 89. Rd8 Nc4 90. Rd4 Nb6 91. Ke5 {Nastasio: notice how the king, at the right time keeps the enemy king at bay, and prevents a happy reunion!} Nc8 92. Ke6 Na7 93. Kd7 {Nastasio: now if Black moves the knight on the fifth rank is lost, and if he moves the king, White closes the trap.} 1-0

The draw is not quite so routine. As Tartakower said, the blunders are all there, just waiting to be made.

A routine draw is something like K & R v K & R, where you have to make a massive blunder to lose (fall into a skewer or mate).

Off subject but the time stamp is an hour ahead for these posts.

That's the one! Magnus avant la lettre. Black must have felt he was never going to lose this.

It is however noteworthy that the king and knight started a long way apart; never a good look.

Though the above ending is R v N - the OP was actually referring to RN v R.

I definitely recall Gazza winning *that* one against Judit Polgar once?

(indeed, that one has been referred to above)

The Carlsen trap in R+N v R:

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1604450

Kasparov v Polgar:

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070866

Sorry, I definitely recall a Karpov win that was RN v R. R v N is a different kettle of fish, and harder for the defender.

I remember doing some work with the late Danny Kopec on R v N, for the purposes of his postgrad AI studies.

Comfortably drawn here

you simply put the rook the other end of the board from the king and keep checking the opponents king with it i think avoiding the corners with your king