out of the blue in an english line i invented

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:43 pm

ive noticed the computer over estimtes Blacks positions that he gets in all the time but i have good practical results with the opening which i dont get as black for example.

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:47 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:33 pm

A line where they havent castled or white hasnt played d3 which is equal

An engine scores it as advantage Black using the idea 8. .. exf4 instead of 8. .. Nxg4. If there isn't a pawn a d3 to capture, there's no immediate need to lure the Queen out to g4.

It's a position that's presumably full of Kings Gambit style tactics.

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:53 pm

the engine isnt accurate in such lines which is why i use them i guess

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:08 pm

for example take a look at this line played with your suggestion.

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:23 pm

these are just cobbled together quickly not well thought out theory on the merits of the line

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:33 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:08 pm
for example take a look at this line played with your suggestion.

An engine suggests giving the Bishop a kick with .. h5 before playing .. g5. Something of a Wagenbach structure. It has the merit of preventing the Bishop's residence on f5 and may threaten a later pawn storm on the White King. Tactical chess move by move.

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:36 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:23 pm
these are just cobbled together quickly not well thought out theory on the merits of the line

The impression I get is that the chaos created by Nxe5 is mostly in Black's favour.

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:55 pm

you have obviously a better engine than me plus i am working against your skill levels as an operator.
this is the best i could achieve

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:57 pm

the impression i get is you and others take silicon friends with you into the playing hall

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:11 pm

almost every human ive played has played the line involving Bxe2 Nxc6 Bxd1 Nxd8

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:13 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:57 pm
the impression i get is you and others take silicon friends with you into the playing hall

Your impression is completely wrong. It's down to pattern recognition and perhaps memory.

Roger de Coverly · Post by **Roger de Coverly** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:11 pm
almost every human ive played has played the line involving Bxe2 Nxc6 Bxd1 Nxd8

It's a forced variation. That doesn't necessarily make it best play by Black.

Afek didn't bother with .. Bg4, instead he went for an immediate .. Nh5

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:22 pm

An im helped me with preparation after the event on Nh5 i cant remember the analysis but it was favourable for white. i do still have a record of it.

AlanLlewellyn · Post by **AlanLlewellyn** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:53 pm

Anyway sorry Roger for the insinuation its been an interesting discussion. I will be tired from it for my online icc 45 10 weekly tourney now I play at 4pm

Matt Mackenzie · Post by **Matt Mackenzie** » Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:45 pm

JustinHorton wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:42 am
Does that stand up though? If a move had, for instance, been played in a grandmaster tournament in the 1980s, hailed as a novelty, changed the course of theory etc etc etc, and then many years later it turned out to have been played in a club game in Adelaide in 1967, would that retrospectively lose its status as a novelty? I am not sure it would, and I think this is because we really think of opening theory as depending on the players involved being of a certain standard. (I also don't think there are clear lines here that we can draw.)

A famous example here is .....d5?!?! in game 16 of the 1985 KvK match.

GK and his team genuinely thought it was a novelty, it had actually been played 20 years earlier in that year's Hungarian championship.

(crucially perhaps, this was just before Chess Informant started - they would very likely have published it a year or two later)

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