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[Event "T93 Team 45 45 (u1300)"] [Site "Internet Chess Club"] [Date "2022.08.06"] [Round "4"] [White "mongmong"] [Black "Llewellyn, Alan Mansel"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "A46"] [WhiteElo "1509"] [BlackElo "1461"] [PlyCount "117"] [EventDate "2022.??.??"] [TimeControl "2700+45"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c6 3. e3 g6 4. Bd3 Na6 5. c3 c5 6. Nbd2 d5 7. O-O Bg7 8. Qe2 O-O 9. Bxa6 bxa6 10. dxc5 Qc7 11. e4 Bb7 12. exd5 Bxd5 13. Re1 Qxc5 14. Qxa6 Ng4 15. Qe2 e5 16. h3 Nf6 17. Nb3 Bxb3 18. axb3 e4 19. Nh2 Nd5 20. Be3 Nxe3 21. Qxe3 Qb5 22. b4 f5 23. Ra5 Qb6 24. Qxb6 axb6 25. Rxa8 Rxa8 26. Nf1 Ra2 27. Rb1 Kf7 28. Ne3 Ke6 29. Nc4 b5 30. Na5 Kd5 31. Kf1 f4 32. Ke1 e3 33. fxe3 fxe3 34. Kd1 Ke4 35. Kc2 e2 36. Kd2 Bh6+ 37. Kxe2 Be3 38. Nb3 Ra8 39. Nd2+ Bxd2 40. Kxd2 Rd8+ 41. Ke2 Rd3 42. Rd1 Rxd1 43. Kxd1 Kd3 44. g3 h6 45. g4 g5 46. Kc1 Ke3 47. Kc2 Kf3 48. b3 Kg3 49. c4 Kxh3 50. c5 Kxg4 51. c6 h5 52. c7 h4 53. c8=Q+ Kg3 54. Qc7+ Kh3 55. Qc3+ Kg2 56. Qd2+ Kh1 57. Qxg5 h3 58. Qxb5 h2 59. Qf1# { Black checkmated} 1-0 This is not me playing the game it was online but can you spot the combination i could have played which gained me an edge if played. To my human eyes i thought i was in trouble and so thought only defensively not attackingly

Which move are you talking about where Black can get a draw?

after 36 Kd2 , 36...Bh6?? was a game losing blunder

Is it 36...Bxc3+ allowing the Black king to support the pawn queening after 37.Kxc3 Ke3 38.Nb7 Kf2 39.Kd2 Rxb2+ 40.Rxb2 e1=Q+. (38.Kb3 Ra4 doesn't help White.) So White probably needs to just play 37.Kxe2.

It's a nice combination (if I have analysed it right).

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:42 pm

can you spot the combination i could have played which gained me an edge if played.

Yes. It's not difficult to find once you know there's a combination instead of 36.... Bh6+. It looks to me like the best move in that position is clearly winning for Black.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:47 pm

Is it 36...Bxc3+

No. Right idea, but wrong first move.

Are you saying that Black takes on b2 with the rook after the White king takes on e2 and that the bishop is winning against the knight in that endgame? I wish I was strong enough to be sure of that sort of thing without having to think quite carefully about it... (I think Black can keep his b5 pawn and win with that).

EDIT: After seeing Ian's post above.

Oh, phoeey! I knew I hadn't got it quite right!

Yes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2

Oh, let me do this in real time...

I can see that queening the pawn first works if Black takes the pawn and then White takes on b2 and then bishop takes on c3 with check. But surely White just takes on e1 with check? Are you sure it is not you doing the moves in the wrong order, Ian?

EDIT: OK, I see it now!

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pm

Yes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2

Doesn't that just end up in one of the lines I gave in my original post?

37 ...e1=Q+ ?? is a mistake because of 38 Kxe1 Bxc3+ 39 Rd2!? Ke3 40 Nb3 and black is a busted flush

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pm

Yes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2

It's elegant, play a couple of moves of "losing chess", sacrificing the remaining bits. That's assuming that taking the Bishop and allowing a new Queen is winning for Black. Probably as queens can be killers.

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pm

37 ...e1=Q+ ?? is a mistake because of 38 Kxe1 Bxc3+ 39 Rd2!? Ke3 40 Nb3 and black is a busted flush

I was talking about 36...e1=Q+, not on move 37. And I was talking rubbish because White takes on e1 with the rook.

Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pm

Yes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2

It's elegant, play a couple of moves of "losing chess", sacrificing the remaining bits. That's assuming that taking the Bishop and allowing a new Queen is winning for Black. Probably as queens can be killers.

I prefer 36...Bxc3+ and I'd still play that after considering all the above, as I'd prefer to be in a cleanly winning BvN endgame than trying to win with Queen against rook and knight. Though Black would probably win the kingside pawns quickly and then win easily.

Actually, I'd probably lose on time while trying to decide between those two moves...

Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:05 pm

AlanLlewellyn wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:59 pm

Yes there is a nicer combination than 36...Bxc3+ namely- 36...Rxb2+!! 37 Rxb2 Bxc3+!! 38 Kxe2 Bxb2

It's elegant, play a couple of moves of "losing chess", sacrificing the remaining bits. That's assuming that taking the Bishop and allowing a new Queen is winning for Black. Probably as queens can be killers.

i even looked at Rxb2 and individually Bxc3 in the game but decided in that exact position that both were dumb, (I was too concerned about losing my rook)