English Chess Forum

In case you haven't worked it out, 9LX is St Louis speak for 960, ie Fisher Random. Today is the final day of this three day event.

It has been worthy of a full thread, but my post is about what looks like serious poisoned pawn prep in round 7.

https://nxt.chessbomb.com/events/2022-c ... dler_Peter

"It has been worthy of a full thread, but my post is about what looks like serious poisoned pawn prep in round 7."

The better players are doing that. All the 960 events I have played confront you with the starting position just before start of play, so you would need a seriously good memory to know theory in them all. Did they get warning here?

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:24 am

All the 960 events I have played confront you with the starting position just before start of play, so you would need a seriously good memory to know theory in them all. Did they get warning here?

15 minutes warning, although that could almost be regarded as when the game starts because the regulations say:

Players may independently analyze the [starting] position for the time allotted in 5.3. Player may not consult any software, chess engines, notes, nor receive assistance from any other person. Players may discuss the position with other Players in the event.

I also discover from looking at the regulations that the event is a misnomer. It should be Chess 9LIX. Is that normal, or can players expect to be confronted with a position they are familiar with once every 960 games?

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:24 am

Did they get warning here?

"The position will be revealed fifteen minutes prior to the start of play.
Players may independently analyze the position for the time allotted in 5.3. Player may not consult any software, chess engines, notes, nor receive assistance from any other person. Players may discuss the position with other Players in the event"

They did apparently take the opportunity to analyse among themselves

Thanks - I recall a Dutch friend who played in a 960 event reporting that he overheard a GM telling a colleague, "I've found a new move in 465!" (that number may be wrong.)

The Fischer Z club's 960 RP event in Amsterdam used to have 30 minutes for white and 25 for black, so that you both got 5 minutes to examine the starting position, although obviously white could just play move 1 quickly. On one occasion, we did get position 518 (the normal one).

Kevin Thurlow wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:26 am

The Fischer Z club's 960 RP event in Amsterdam used to have 30 minutes for white and 25 for black, so that you both got 5 minutes to examine the starting position, although obviously white could just play move 1 quickly. On one occasion, we did get position 518 (the normal one).

That sounds appallingly unfair. In many starting positions there are obvious first moves for White which pose questions that Black has to answer. Then he has to give his opponent a five minute start and on top of all this White retains the advantage of the first move.

The Dutch are strange people, as I have always taken every opportunity to remind them.

I was surprised by the time control, and when I had white, I didn't use 5 minutes on move 1.

The Dutch national anthem talks about allegiance to the KIng of Spain, so they're entitled to be confused.

All that effort to avoid the games being "ruined" by opening preparation and Fischer random has found new ways to reinvent the same problems it was supposed to cure...coupled with the fact that several starting positions are borderline unplayable, it deserves a rightful place on the garbage heap along with all other chess variants

People have been saying that classical chess is "played out" for at least a century - it very much isn't.

(and is highly unlikely to be in any of our lifetimes, either)

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:10 pm

People have been saying that classical chess is "played out" for at least a century - it very much isn't.

Some main lines needed to be forgetten. Engines can help on that, especially the unprejudiced neural net type, by demonstrating the alleged bad variants from main lines are in fact no worse than the traditional main line.

Matt Mackenzie wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:10 pm

People have been saying that classical chess is "played out" for at least a century - it very much isn't.
(and is highly unlikely to be in any of our lifetimes, either)

That is people referring to chess at the very top level. The cure there is to tinker with the time controls.
(I'd like to see the New York 1924 rules brought in, just for an experiment, you did not know who you were
playing or what colour you were till 15 minutes before the clocks starts. I'd make 5 minutes.)

At the lower level you still see seasoned players falling for traps that players in the 1800's fell for,
players walking eyes wide into two move tricks and misplaying endings (er...let's not go there).
You are correct. The future of chess is secure because there will always be people attracted to the game.

There is something about it, some unexplainable drug that once hooked you have it for life.
I've no idea what it is. Maybe I love it because it's the only thing I was remotely any good at!

Joey Stewart wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:53 pm

coupled with the fact that several starting positions are borderline unplayable

This meme has been going on for years, but nobody can actually produce one.

You know nothing - you do have to actually play the variant to understand it and I do so can produce more then one - Anything where you can instantly target loose pawns as white puts black at an extreme disadvantage, also any game where the knights or bishops start on stupid squares means you have to waste about 5 tempo just to put them somewhere vaguely useful and as far as I am concerned that is by no means an improvement on classical and leads to rubbish positions.

OK, I'll bite; you have seen this Nick? http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/40 ... able_start

Paul Cooksey wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:22 pm

OK, I'll bite; you have seen this Nick? http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/40 ... able_start

Yes I have, a long time ago when I was asked to consider the question of FIDE rating 960 games. Nothing here satisfies my definition of unplayable.

I don't know why they didn't ask Joey, whose understanding is obviously far deeper than mine or that of any of the GMs included in the discussion.