Accusation against Alejandro Ramirez

[Paul Cooksey]

I watched the unpleasant C4 program too. I'm not sure we can compare the case to Weinstein, given the numbers of women he attacked. But I imagine Brand could face 10 or more years in prison if convicted of the 3 alleged crimes.

Most of the program was about consensual relationships, but noting manipulation, lack of respect, and some of the most extreme examples of inappropriate workplace behaviour one could imagine.

A problematic area for me. No crimes alleged, and I do not want to consider adult consenting women as vulnerable and in need of safeguarding. Perhaps the shaming of perpetrators is appropriate, although it makes me uncomfortable there is no due process.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"See, even by saying "always protect your drink", you have stepped on the same victim-blaming landmine that Richard Madeley did a couple of years ago, and if this was Twitter you would be going directly to jail without passing Go. That it's literally a safety tip that women share with other women all the time, makes no difference."

I realise manipulative and narcissistic people will turn anything you say against you or lie about what you said. I worked in chemical safety for some years - when writing a safety data sheet for any laboratory chemical, you always say, "Wear eye protection" (it may get more detailed). That is obvious, especially if you work in a chemical laboratory, but you write it for ALL USERS. Similarly, there are people out there who do not realise that there are nasty people about and you need to be aware.

Just to ensure X bans me, "Always look both ways before crossing the road, and make sure it's safe to cross."

[Matt Bridgeman]

The ECF safeguarding policy can only be better than whatever Brand’s agents, Tavistock Wood, claim they had. They’re the ones who when told about the awful grooming of the 16 year old girl by her older self, responded in 2020 with one of those awful solicitor letters basically saying go away, we think you want money, we’ve got lots of lawyers. Only yesterday, with the writing finally on the wall, have they canned Brand. They claim they’ve been horribly misled by him. It seems their safe guarding policy was basically just to take their client’s word for everything. With Brand it seemed because he was worth money to these organisations, safe guarding often went right out of the window!

[Paul Cooksey]

I'm feeling a bit defensive about still posting on this subject, so a comment on that, apologies if it seems a bit self indulgent.

I nearly replied to someone in another thread who felt this thread should be locked. My feeling is lack of recognition of the seriousness of this issue by middle aged and older male chess players who contribute to this forum and hold positions of responsibility in chess should be addressed. I was very conscious we might be making missteps along the way even before Djuna accused me of harassment. But I still think the best we can do is better than nothing.

Reinforcing the point about my own lack of knowledge, I was shocked relatively recently when I saw some young women recoil in horror from a scene in an old romcom. A man gave a woman an open beer bottle at a party and she drank from it. They thought it was a Chekov's gun indicating a tonal shift in the film. It wasn't, I am sure in 1990 it was not intended as such, and I would not have noticed it if not for their reaction. But gave me some insight into how much concern there is about that issue. I do not think it is quite the same as the safety glasses analogy. Since that is a situation where a woman can be in full control.

Interesting to see Sabrina's comments to Nigel Davies. She suggests ECF safeguarding is insufficient and should be independently monitored which is worth consideration.

From my point of view, notable that Sabrina willing to discuss things on friendly terms with Nigel, who I assume is a friend, but was very hostile to Nick making similar points. The exception being that Nigel is highly critical of Jennifer Shahade and Nick highly supportive.

I guess it is inevitable that semi-anonymous men on social media are going to catch some stray bullets when people are angry, Not enough of a problem for me to want to sweep the issue under the carpet.

[Chris Goodall]

Interesting to see Sabrina's comments to Nigel Davies. She suggests ECF safeguarding is insufficient and should be independently monitored which is worth consideration.

From my point of view, notable that Sabrina willing to discuss things on friendly terms with Nigel, who I assume is a friend, but was very hostile to Nick making similar points. The exception being that Nigel is highly critical of Jennifer Shahade and Nick highly supportive.

I guess it is inevitable that semi-anonymous men on social media are going to catch some stray bullets when people are angry, Not enough of a problem for me to want to sweep the issue under the carpet.

Absolutely, I am anti-carpet-sweeping regardless of anger levels, there is no right way for a victim to behave. If tomorrow Sabrina said "just kidding everyone!" I would want the chess community to keep the ball rolling regardless, under the assumption that Sabrina had been got at by someone powerful. It's also clear that Sabrina's skills are as a publicist and communicator, and not as a legislator, and that's fine. Unfortunately without names (for perfectly good reasons) and without anything to vote on, we pale, male and stale organisers can only offer fairly milquetoast statements about how sexual assault is bad and people shouldn't do it, which don't always give the impression of taking it seriously.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Nets closing in on Brand at least. The police have a 2003 allegation to act on now. Might show Sabrina that these historical crimes can still end up in court.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Nets closing in on Brand at least. The police have a 2003 allegation to act on now. Might show Sabrina that these historical crimes can still end up in court."

Andrew Tate and Elon Musk have issued messages of support to Brand (though that might not help...)

Yes to the last bit. Police are still so embarrassed by their previous lack of interest in similar cases, it's definitely worth trying.

[Kevin Thurlow]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/66854412

A brave action, publishing names.

[Matt Bridgeman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/66854412

A brave action, publishing names.

Like the huge American independent safe guarding sports project I mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems like these guys really want a British independent body too. I’d bet chess could get onboard if the government ever funds it; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/65609441

[Roger Lancaster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/66854412

A brave action, publishing names.

Like the huge American independent safe guarding sports project I mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems like these guys really want a British independent body too. I’d bet chess could get onboard if the government ever funds it; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/65609441

But, if Sport England is the driving force, it's an organisation which doesn't recognise chess - so likely leaving us out in the cold!

[Matt Bridgeman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/66854412

A brave action, publishing names.

Like the huge American independent safe guarding sports project I mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems like these guys really want a British independent body too. I’d bet chess could get onboard if the government ever funds it; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/65609441

But, if Sport England is the driving force, it's an organisation which doesn't recognise chess - so likely leaving us out in the cold!

Maybe the stars will align next year. The likely new Chancellor Rachel Reeves seems to have a soft spot for chess. And no doubt Pein will be pushing all the buttons he can.

[Roger Lancaster]

Like the huge American independent safe guarding sports project I mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems like these guys really want a British independent body too. I’d bet chess could get onboard if the government ever funds it; https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/65609441

But, if Sport England is the driving force, it's an organisation which doesn't recognise chess - so likely leaving us out in the cold!

Maybe the stars will align next year. The likely new Chancellor Rachel Reeves seems to have a soft spot for chess. And no doubt Pein will be pushing all the buttons he can.

Maybe, although Dominic's influence may be more limited! Incidentally, British Gymnastics Association receiving real flak over its list.

[Mick Norris]

They are getting flak for leaving people off the list, though, not for publishing it

[Roger Lancaster]

They are getting flak for leaving people off the list, though, not for publishing it

Well, yes, but any list is open to that criticism - whether well-founded or not - on the basis that someone has been wrongly omitted. And that's quite separate from the possibility of defamation claims by those who reckon they have been wrongly included.

[Mick Norris]

On the original topic of this thread US Chess President Faces Calls For Resignation After Social Media Comments