How Do Pro Players Actually make money from CHESS??

[Peter Ackley]

I don't think the word "lose" is right there. You're spending money on a hobby. Losing money is when you get nothing back for it, a hobby is the spending of money for personal gain.

[Mark Howitt]

OK yes investing money might be a better phrase... depends how u view it really... I guess investing is the word if you think it's worthwhile (have been chatting to a decent chessplayer bit younger than me and he quit chess because he finds it depressing)...

[Chris Goodall]

There will always be people who simply don't need a full time wage for whatever reason, but I've said before (so often that Tim Wall thinks I'm aiming it at him), I think we can sustain approximately one chess professional in England, like we had at the point of the Fischer boom. It's nothing to do with deserving a reward for working hard to get the GM title - I could work incredibly hard digging a hole in my back garden, but there's no demand for it, so I won't get paid.

[Ian Thompson]

But what did Gormally say he earned? 12k?? Not much use if you have kids and a mortgage, I would suggest.

Not quite the same thing, but, for comparison, this report says, in retirement, you need incomes of:

Code: Select all

Living standard	Single	Couple
Minimum		£12,800	£19,900
Moderate	£23,300	£34,000
Comfortable	£37,300	£54,500

[Matt Bridgeman]

I don't think the word "lose" is right there. You're spending money on a hobby. Losing money is when you get nothing back for it, a hobby is the spending of money for personal gain.

I think ‘hobby’ is more or less the word now for English chess. Even our best young players coming out of that GCSE, A-Level, Degree system and perhaps now having gap years to chase GM norms etc, are probably still in that grey area where it’s probably a target to tick off before knuckling down to that job in the city or wherever. It’s all probably a world away from the model in India where it might be 10 hours of daily chess and not very much school from the age of 10. And then it becomes a Darwinian battle to either be a GM going places in the world or there’s the door. Probably with a lot more state support too.

[Paul Cooksey]

Matthew Sadler perhaps notable here. He has written of his decision to quit chess for a career in IT at a relatively young age and in the world top 20.

I assume his career earnings from chess were high compared to other GMs, but even at that level, a corporate job still offered more income. I don't know him personally, but he gives the impression he was happy with his choices, he reached his chess peak and then prioritised other things and moved on.

[Matt Bridgeman]

Matthew Sadler perhaps notable here. He has written of his decision to quit chess for a career in IT at a relatively young age and in the world top 20.

I assume his career earnings from chess were high compared to other GMs, but even at that level, a corporate job still offered more income. I don't know him personally, but he gives the impression he was happy with his choices, he reached his chess peak and then prioritised other things and moved on.

He’s so close to 2700 you get the impression that post-covid he’s very wary of playing any FIDE games after the break. It’s probably his last playing goal.

[MartinCarpenter]

But what did Gormally say he earned? 12k?? Not much use if you have kids and a mortgage, I would suggest.

Not quite the same thing, but, for comparison, this report says, in retirement, you need incomes of:

Code: Select all

Living standard	Single	Couple
Minimum		£12,800	£19,900
Moderate	£23,300	£34,000
Comfortable	£37,300	£54,500

Slightly weird numbers those I think, although it was just how they got quoted.

First off, they're assuming no housing costs. That's OK to do of course but it'll be a lot extra these days. Very hard for chess pro's (and many others) to have that covered I would guess.

Then there's the idea that you need >50k post housing costs to be comfortable as a couple. That's a very comfortable definition of comfortable.....

[Mick Norris]

Maybe you aspire to something more luxurious. Loughborough and the PLSA reckon that someone wanting a “comfortable” lifestyle in retirement will need to find £37,300 a year as a single person, or £54,500 a year as a couple. Live in London and the relative cost goes up to £40,900 and £56,500 respectively. But this is the cruise ship end of the retirement market – the figures assume our lucky pensioner holidays in Europe three weeks a year, spends £1,500 on clothing a year and £144 a week on food. And drives a fairly nice motor

I have clients who spend more than that, and of course long term care costs would be more too

It's a bit off topic though

I'd rather focus on Peter's viewpoint that happiness is more important; if playing chess doesn't make you happy, then you need to think about why you do it

[Roger de Coverly]

Very few of those people have found an answer to the question.

Haven't a number of titled chess players attempted to make or supplement their income from poker? Perhaps the ones still playing chess haven't had enough success.

[Nick Ivell]

I cannot imagine that playing poker is a reliable supplement, unless you are very good or very lucky.

To be good at chess you need to invest a lot of time. This time rarely translates into money.

I began to find chess a very expensive hobby indeed; but there again, it's a long time since I dreamed of being a professional.

[Paul Cooksey]

Haven't a number of titled chess players attempted to make or supplement their income from poker? Perhaps the ones still playing chess haven't had enough success.

During this period - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_boom - I think many did. But as Nick says, it became harder subsequently.

I know a GM who taught Salsa dancing. He said it was a nice to have a regular income because it took some pressure off playing, and the socialisation was a welcome change. So I guess an almost infinite number of possibilities.

[Mark Howitt]

A lot of chessplayers play poker- I have a bit.

It's easier to make at least a bit of money in it compared to chess...

Peak for online poker was about 2003 though.

[Mark Howitt]

Thing is if you're a good chessplayer potentially you do have a lot of skills you could use for other things/jobs...

I make a bit of money sportsbetting sometimes... I'm not short of money...

This is why I tell some GMs to do other things at least for some of their time

[Nick Ivell]

I remember Bill Hartston telling me he doesn't think chess confers any transferable skills whatsoever.

Another person lost to chess, because he wasn't earning enough. And he was pretty good!