English Chess Forum

On the general principle that the 1990s are not yet (quite) far away enough in time to be history (so putting this in General Chat), can anyone help with memories of a player and match that took place nearly 32 years ago?

I have put the name of the player (strong former US junior and FM David Glueck) in the title, as I am hoping that the draw he played on top board with future IM Andrew Ledger (IM title obtained in 1994) may be available.

Apologies if this is already in the databases (had a quick look but nothing, may have been looking in the wrong place).

The match scorecard is here (Minor Counties Final between Bedfordshire and Oxfordshire):
Who captained/picked the Oxfordshire team for that final on 20 June 1992? I have not yet looked back to earlier rounds to see if Glueck was playing then.

Can anyone help with getting full names and grades for both teams, and any of the games? I know the first names of some, but not all. Simon Ansell (aged about 17) was a strong junior (IM title in 1996) and on board 2 next to Glueck.

Bit more on team names here.

If enough games are known and there are published accounts of the match, I will put some of this in a Chess History thread. Not sure if Britbase collects County Championship games between strong players?

EDIT: James N. Stayt an active chess player.

Is F van Hasselt Frank van Hasselt (born 1968) who played in three Varsity Matches? "Van Hasselt, Frank New 1988/4 1989/5 1991/5" (from Britbase, looks like three as an undergraduate). Appears to be registered for Hong Kong now: 2175, but stronger when younger. Might be this person:

"studied Philosophy and Modern Languages at Oxford"

But maybe not. Paging Brian...

Minor Counties Final
Bedfordshire vs Oxfordshire*
Birmingham, 20 June 1992

1. Andrew Ledger 0.5-0.5 D. (David?) Glueck
2. David Ledger 0.5-0.5 Simon T. Ansell
3. Andrew Bryce 0-1 N. J. (Nigel?) Holloway
4. Steve Ledger 0.5-0.5 M. (Martin L.?) Hazelton
5. Tim G. Hare 0-1 G. (Gregory?) D'Elia
6. Paul D. Hare 0.5-0.5 I. R. (Ian R.?) Dutton
7. Brian Valentine 0-1 F. (Frank?) van Hasselt
8. Richard (C. P.?) Freeman 0-1 J. J. (Jon J.?) Hastings
9. Paul F. Habershon 1-0 R. J. (Ray J.?) Starkie
10. Paul Pritchard 0-1 M. (Matthew?) Rose
11. Richard Mahoney 1-0 G. W. (Graham W.?) Chapman
12. Adrian G Elwin 1-0 E. (E. Justin?) Horton
13. Peter (C.?) Clarke 1-0 D. (David J.?) Bruce
14. Milton Ioannides 1-0 J. N. (James N.?) Stayt
15. David (C.?) Chandler 0.5-0.5 T. (Tim R.?) Dickinson
16. Philip Thomas 1-0 H. (Heidi?) Heron

Bedfordshire 8.5-7.5 Oxfordshire

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:11 am

Can anyone help with getting full names and grades for both teams, and any of the games?

There are a lot of well known players on the match card. I think I could give first names for about half of them.

I'll offer one who may be less well known - P Pritchard is probably Paul Pritchard, who I was at university with. Adrian Elwin, who also both played in the match and was at university at the same time as Paul and me, might know for sure.

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:16 pm

9. P. Hebershon (Paul F. Habershon?) 1-0 R. J. Starkie
10. P. Pritchard 0-1 M. Rose

Very likely Ray J Starkie; probably Matthew Rose.

Ian Thompson wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:33 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:11 am

Can anyone help with getting full names and grades for both teams, and any of the games?

There are a lot of well known players on the match card. I think I could give first names for about half of them.

I'll offer one who may be less well known - P Pritchard is probably Paul Pritchard, who I was at university with. Adrian Elwin, who also both played in the match and was at university at the same time as Paul and me, might know for sure.

Thank you. Will add that. There is a P. Pritchard (Milton Keynes) in the ECF rating list, but also a Paul Pritchard in Yorkshire. Same person or different?

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:38 pm

There is a P. Pritchard (Milton Keynes) in the ECF rating list, but also a Paul Pritchard in Yorkshire. Same person or different?

I don''t know. All I'd say is that the Yorkshire player has a grading code that is a much higher number than the Milton Keynes/Exeter University player that I knew would have had. That doesn't mean they must be different players because it could be the same person who was allocated a new code after a period of inactivity instead of continuing to use the old one.

Have put the possibilities in above. Drew a complete blank on R. Mahoney and E. Horton. Am assuming Paul Habershon's name was mis-spelt. Some are very dodgy guesses (e.g. Clarke, Chandler, Bruce, Thomas). Not sure about Freeman either. The others are highly likely or practically certain (will tidy up later).

EDIT: Overall, an interesting mix of juniors, strong county players, and some veterans/regular players, university students and staff/post-docs on the Oxfordshire side. What you would expect. Still trying to get a feel for the relative strengths of the sides.

Oh the joys of the days when "name" was interpreted as "first initial and surname", and of unintelligible writing and a lack of validation when reporting. Almost guaranteed to cause graders self-induced alopecia.

I've been trying to write something for most of the past hour but others keep getting in first. From what I can tell, you can remove most of the question marks you currently have regarding names. Both Bedfordshire's boards 8 and 10 appear to have duplicate/multiple entries in the ECF rating database.

My recollections are dodgy after all this time, complicated by the reun the following year when Oxon got revenge (although I won). All the Beds forenames are in this version http://adrianelwin.co.uk/Bedfordshire/oxfordwin.html .

Many thanks Brian (and others). That list by Adrian Elwin is perfect for the Beds one. Who might be best to contact about the Oxfordshire history?

Any chance Andrew Ledger might still have his game from that match?

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:50 pm

Drew a complete blank on R. Mahoney and E. Horton.

I would rather suspect EJ (Justin) Horton, formerly of these parts.

My memory is hazy too. I can't even be sure who captained Bedfordshire, but I can say that the Hares were not related and I can provide my game. I remember the glow of winning it because it was the last one to finish with the score 7.5-7.5 and Bedfordshire would lose heavily on board count at 8-8.
Of course there is no particular merit in winning the final game as every other draw and win were vital, but it's more tense. I had forgotten that my opponent was called Ray. I like to think he was Richard when he would probably be nicknamed Ringo.

My scorebook has a note that I stopped recording at move 56 (fewer than five minutes left), but fortunately someone else recorded the denouement.

[Event "Minor Counties Final"] [Site "Birmingham"] [Date "1992.06.20"] [Round "?"] [White "Starkie, Ray"] [Black "Habershon, Paul"] [Result "0-1"] [PlyCount "146"] [WhiteTeam "Oxfordshire"] [BlackTeam "Bedfordshire"] 1. e4 Nf6 2. d3 d6 3. Nc3 g6 4. g3 Bg7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. Nf3 c5 7. O-O Nc6 8. h3 Rb8 9. a4 a6 10. d4 cxd4 11. Nxd4 Bd7 12. Be3 Qc8 13. Kh2 Ne5 14. Nde2 Nc4 15. Bc1 b5 16. axb5 axb5 17. Nf4 e6 18. Ra2 Rd8 19. Nd3 b4 20. Nb1 Bc6 21. Qe2 Qb7 22. b3 Ne5 23. f4 Nxd3 24. cxd3 Nd7 25. Be3 Nc5 26. Nd2 Qb5 27. Rc1 Bc3 28. Bxc5 Qxc5 29. Nc4 Ra8 30. Rcc2 d5 31. exd5 Bxd5 32. Bxd5 Rxa2 33. Rxa2 Qxd5 34. Qe4 Qxd3 35. Qxd3 Rxd3 36. Re2 Rd1 37. Kg2 Rb1 38. Na5 Kf8 39. Re4 Ke8 40. g4 Kd7 41. Rc4 f6 42. Kf3 h6 43. Rc5 Rh1 44. Kg2 Rd1 45. Nc4 Rb1 46. Na5 f5 47. gxf5 gxf5 48. Rc4 Rb2+ 49. Kf3 Be1 50. Rd4+ Ke8 51. Rd1 Bc3 52. Rd6 Kf7 53. Rd1 h5 54. Rd7+ Kf6 55. Rh7 h4 56. Rh6+ Kf7 57. Ke3 Be1 (57... Rh2 58. Rxh4 Kg7 59. Rh5 Bf6) 58. Rh7+ Ke8 59. Rh8+ Kd7 60. Rh7+ Kc8 61. Rh8+ Kc7 62. Rh7+ Kc8 63. Rh8+ Kd7 64. Rh7+ Ke8 65. Rh8+ Kf7 66. Rh7+ Kg6 67. Re7 Kf6 68. Rh7 Rh2 69. Rb7 Rxh3+ 70. Kd4 Rf3 71. Nc6 Rxf4+ 72. Kc5 h3 73. Rh7 Rh4 0-1

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:08 pm

Many thanks Brian (and others). That list by Adrian Elwin is perfect for the Beds one. Who might be best to contact about the Oxfordshire history?

Any chance Andrew Ledger might still have his game from that match?

He told me he has it. I asked for it some time ago but he didn't hand it over, I can ask him again.

Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:02 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:50 pm

Drew a complete blank on R. Mahoney and E. Horton.

I would rather suspect EJ (Justin) Horton, formerly of these parts.

Pretty sure he often called himself Ed Horton in the past, especially when commenting on football matters.

Did he play for Oxfordshire?