Strange Fault with DGT Clock

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Ian Thompson
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Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Ian Thompson » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:00 pm

Anyone come across a fault with a clock like this before?

In my 4NCL game yesterday I knew that my opponent had about 12 minutes left to reach the time control. I glanced at the clock and it was showing less than 2 minutes. Next time I looked it was back up to 11 minutes or so. Watching his clock again, approaching the second time control, and playing around with the clock after the game, it became clear what was happening.

The clock display was correct from 13 minutes 59 seconds, down to 13 minutes 30 seconds. It then changed to 3 minutes 29 seconds, down to 3 minutes 20 seconds. Then it corrected itself and showed 13 minutes 19 seconds. The same thing happened at 12 minutes and 11 minutes. When the number of seconds was between 20 and 29, the first digit of the display disappeared, therefore showing the remaining time as 10 minutes less than it actually was.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:28 am

Ian Thompson wrote:Anyone come across a fault with a clock like this before?

In my 4NCL game yesterday I knew that my opponent had about 12 minutes left to reach the time control. I glanced at the clock and it was showing less than 2 minutes. Next time I looked it was back up to 11 minutes or so. Watching his clock again, approaching the second time control, and playing around with the clock after the game, it became clear what was happening.

The clock display was correct from 13 minutes 59 seconds, down to 13 minutes 30 seconds. It then changed to 3 minutes 29 seconds, down to 3 minutes 20 seconds. Then it corrected itself and showed 13 minutes 19 seconds. The same thing happened at 12 minutes and 11 minutes. When the number of seconds was between 20 and 29, the first digit of the display disappeared, therefore showing the remaining time as 10 minutes less than it actually was.
Did you report the fault to David Welch at the time? David knows a lot about the vagaries of DGTs.

I've not come across this particular fault, or anything similar. However, in my experience strange behaviour by a DGT is usually caused by low batteries or a faulty connection.

In this instance I suspect the former. The battey light isn't always 100% reliable as an indicator that the batteries need to be changed.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:19 am

David Sedgwick wrote: Did you report the fault to David Welch at the time? David knows a lot about the vagaries of DGTs.
No. I demonstrated the fault to the arbiter in the room in which I was playing, whose name I don't know. I don't know what he did with the clock.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:49 am

The clock ended up in Dave Welch's hands in the Arbiters' Office. He seemed completely baffled...

Sean Hewitt

Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:13 am

I have something similar with one clock. When setting the clock, all the displays show all digits correctly. However, when play starts the number that represents the tens of minutes is missing the line on the left hand side - regardless of which number is being displayed.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Well, I remember Derek McGovern's opponent once chancing his arm in the Thames Valley League, when he claimed a win on time after about an hour's play. Seems Derek's clock (analogue) went backwards to the hour... how you abuse an analogue clock enough to unwind backwards, I dread to think! :lol:

Paul McKeown
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Paul McKeown » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:19 pm

Talking of crap conditions, etc., the worst I ever heard of was Hayes CC turning up to Greenford in the Hillingdon League, only to find the venue double booked. The landlord had a bright idea, he rolled out some trestle tables... into a disused gents downstairs. :shock:

NeilJerzynek
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by NeilJerzynek » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:42 pm

u mean sixth of minute, not tenth :-)

Ian Thompson
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Ian Thompson » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:23 am

And I had another faulty DGT clock in a game yesterday. It was a DGT 2010.

The clock appeared to be correctly set before the game started - rocker up on White's (my) side. Black pressed the Start button and his clock started running instead of mine. The arbiter reset the clock and said the problem was because one of settings is which side is White and which is Black. He said this has been set the wrong way round. The game started with the clock appearing to be working properly. After about 25 minutes play I noticed that the problem had recurred - my move, the rocker up on my side, but my opponent's clock running. The clock was replaced. With hindsight, I don't believe the arbiter's original explanation. I can't think of any possible circumstance where you would want the clock to be running on the side where the rocker is down because that player has no way of stopping his clock and stating his opponent's.

The replacement clock was a DGT Easy. Are the arbiters right when they said this clock cannot be programmed for a time control of 40 moves in 2 hours, plus an extra 30 minutes to finish the game? It had to be manually adjusted to add the 30 minutes after 4 hours play.

Eoin Devane
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Eoin Devane » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:28 am

Ian Thompson wrote:The replacement clock was a DGT Easy. Are the arbiters right when they said this clock cannot be programmed for a time control of 40 moves in 2 hours, plus an extra 30 minutes to finish the game? It had to be manually adjusted to add the 30 minutes after 4 hours play.
Yes, that's correct. The Easys don't have a move counter or any preset modes. They work effectively the same as normal analogue clocks do, in that any extra time you have to add yourself. In Oxford we've just bought some of the DGT Easy Plus clocks, which are like the Easys but also allow increment, which I think is worthwhile for £5 extra per clock. Not being a very rich club, we went for the Easy Plus rather than the 2010 as we couldn't really justify paying twice the price just to get a move counter plus a load of modes no-one ever uses. I'm quite happy to let people count their own moves, as they were capable of doing in the past! :) For the record, I really like the DGT 2010 based on my experience with them at the London Classic, but for half the price the Easy Plus seems pretty good. The paddle's a bit noisier and less smooth, and the display isn't quite as clear, but I think it's quite a nice clock.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:52 am

Eoin Devane wrote:Yes, that's correct. The Easys don't have a move counter or any preset modes. They work effectively the same as normal analogue clocks do, in that any extra time you have to add yourself. In Oxford we've just bought some of the DGT Easy Plus clocks, which are like the Easys but also allow increment, which I think is worthwhile for £5 extra per clock
Personally I think the distinction between the Easy and Easy Plus a rather pointless piece of marketing. Why offer a digital clock without one of the key differences between digital and analogue clocks, namely increment and delay modes? It's even worse if they both use the same chip but with the delay mode disabled in the Easy.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:30 pm

Eoin Devane wrote:Yes, that's correct. The Easys don't have a move counter or any preset modes. They work effectively the same as normal analogue clocks do, in that any extra time you have to add yourself.
That's interesting to know. The entry form for this tournament said the time control would be Fischer 90 minutes + 30 seconds, but at the players' meeting the organiser announced that it was changed to 40 moves in 2 hours + 30 minutes to finish the game. He justified this by saying that the Fischer time control would soon be invalid for title norms (which is true). Perhaps the fact that just over half the clocks being used are DGT Easy's was the overriding reason he changed the time control.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:56 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:He justified this by saying that the Fischer time control would soon be invalid for title norms (which is true).
Only for the 90 30 version though. The 40 in 90 + 30 with 30 second increments will still be valid.

Michele Clack
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Michele Clack » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:45 pm

As a club we had vaguely wondered about getting some digital clocks. After reading this thread I'm not sure that it is a good idea. You don't have this trouble with analogue clocks and you don't have to put batteries in them either.
Last edited by Michele Clack on Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Strange Fault with DGT Clock

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:14 pm

michele clack wrote:As a club we had vaguely wondered about getting some digital clocks. After reading this thread I'm not sure that it is a good idea. You don't have this trouble with digital clocks and you don't have to put batteries in them either.
You do remove the systematic errors, though. With analogue clocks, it's impossible to set the clocks with nearest second position, both at the start and if you have a quickplay finish. I reckon that in due course (i.e. as the analogue clocks break), the digital ones will slowly take over.