Rapidplay Grades

[Sean Hewitt]

If an event, advertised as Rapidplay with 25 or 30 minutes each per game, were played under Blitz rules, are the game results eligible for RP grading ?

There are several tournaments like this. Just before the start of the first round they announce that Blitz rules apply, when there has been no indication of this on the entry form.

Is that right? I'm amazed! So, if you make an illegal move you lose? That should have the anti-mobile phone rule mob apoplectic!!

[Alex Holowczak]

There's nothing to stop the games being graded as rapidplay despite this rule variation; after all, other rule variations are allowed (e.g. allowing descriptive notation, allowing mobile phones to be taken into the playing room), and they get graded without question.

[Rob Thompson]

is allowing descriptive notation a problem in rapidplay? My understanding was that it wasn't, as there was no compulsion to notate the games anyway

[Alex Holowczak]

Rob, you're correct. I was referring to standard games, where you're allowed all sorts of by-laws for convenience, and they get graded quite happily. So why should a rapidplay game with a blitz rule variation be any different? The only regulation (that I know of) the ECF puts on it is that the game must be between 15 and 60 minutes inclusive, which is the same as the FIDE regulation on time limits for distinguishing between the three (blitz < 15, normal > 60, rapid inbetween - but even FIDE will only rate games with certain acceptable time limits).

Technically, rapidplay chess with blitz rules is as much a variation from the laws of chess as a variation where you ban en passant, or a variation where kings move in the same way as queens.

[E Michael White]

Technically, rapidplay chess with blitz rules is as much a variation from the laws of chess as a variation where you ban en passant, or a variation where kings move in the same way as queens.

Alex; aren't you illustrating how silly it is then ?

If the tournament rules become Blitz rules the game becomes a blitz game and so that particular variation is impossible within Rapidplay rules !

[Alex Holowczak]

Alex; aren't you illustrating how silly it is then ?

Yes

[Adam Raoof]

Name and shame these tournaments, Michael!

[E Michael White]

Among others are Chipping Sodbury Rapidplay 2010 & 2009 and Oxford City Rapidplay 2007 which were played under blitz rules. Oxford City sent the results in for RP grading but I don’t think Chipping Sodbury do. So forumite Joey Stewart’s 1= with James Sherwin in the recent open will not be rated. WYSIWYG advertising would be advantageous for all concerned.

[Roger de Coverly]

Among others are Chipping Sodbury Rapidplay 2010 & 2009

The entry form is still here.

http://chessit.co.uk/Chipping%20Sodbury ... ryForm.pdf

Complete silence on blitz rules and given the absence of the Game Fee logo, any indication as to whether it will be graded.

[Graham Mill-Wilson]

I've had some problems registering on this forum, but I've finally made it, so here goes. Having been named (but not shamed) I speak as the organiser of the Chipping Sodbury rapidplays. Quick history - I started the rapidplays in 2003 to celebrate the 10 years existence of Yate chess club, which I also started. It was a success, so I carried on organising them twice a year. The games have never been graded, and there was never any suggestion that they would be. I have played in various rapidplay tournaments over the last ten years, and as far as I know, none of them were ever graded. I believe the norm is that if an event is to be graded, that would be advertised. Not being graded seems to be the default.
The 'Blitz rules' business was something I picked up from Steve Boniface, who used to arbit for me. Last year I took the arbiter test myself, as it was getting difficult to find someone to do it. The reason for blitz rules is simply that, when you're running a six round tournament by yourself, with ten minutes between rounds, it is impossible to watch 2 or 3 games in time scrambles from an arbiting point of view. By keeping it simple, it's all down to the clock, or an illegal move, which of course, has to be spotted by the opponent. I would like to add that no one has ever complained, or even commented, before. Having said all that, I would be quite happy to send our (my) rapidplay results for grading, if that's what people want.

[Joey Stewart]

I think it would be good for them to be sent off - it would serve as quite a major boost to my rapid rating.

[Justin Hadi]

One idea is to run rapidplays with increment. The Richmond rapidplay ran with 25 minutes + 5 seconds increment last sunday and I didn't see a single dispute over the course of the 6 round event. That doesn't mean there wasn't any of course. The increment serves to avoid mega time scrambles where pieces get knocked all over the place leaving less work for the arbiters.

[Alex Holowczak]

One idea is to run rapidplays with increment. The Richmond rapidplay ran with 25 minutes + 5 seconds increment last sunday and I didn't see a single dispute over the course of the 6 round event. That doesn't mean there wasn't any of course. The increment serves to avoid mega time scrambles where pieces get knocked all over the place leaving less work for the arbiters.

For that sort of increment, you need digital clocks. A congress might just use local equipment, which is unlikely to contain a swathe of digital clocks.

[E Michael White]

Graham / Adam Raoof : my original posting on this thread concerned whether an event played under blitz rules could/should submit results for ECF RP rating and wasn’t specific to Graham's event. Traditionally a Forum grading query diverges but eventually a member of the grading team or an ECF board member replies; so we look forward to that.

Graham I am surprised you think most RP results are not graded unless you are including all informal local events. Most results from events described as RP and advertised on the ECF tournament calendar are rated, as indicated by the ~ sign. However two monthly events, the Richmond RP and Golders Green events account for a sizeable proportion of the results. The Director of Home Chess’s own Golders Green events are incidentally incorrectly shown as not ECF rated on the ECF tournament calendar. The Charliechess events look to be rated using a WSCO formula.

Although you say no one has complained or commented, at the last two events some players, who travelled large distances, were surprised/disappointed to learn that the tournament was played under blitz rules and probably not rated. I think it would be better for you to state on the entry form that blitz rules apply and the games are not rated if that is the way you wish to continue. You may lose a few entries but you may gain a few from blitz seekers, who want a day out with a longer time limit as you have all the other attributes such as parking, free buffet and easy motorway access covered.

[Adam Raoof]

Graham / Adam Raoof : my original posting on this thread concerned whether an event played under blitz rules could/should submit results for ECF RP rating and wasn’t specific to Graham's event. Traditionally a Forum grading query diverges but eventually a member of the grading team or an ECF board member replies; so we look forward to that.

Graham I am surprised you think most RP results are not graded unless you are including all informal local events. Most results from events described as RP and advertised on the ECF tournament calendar are rated, as indicated by the ~ sign. However two monthly events, the Richmond RP and Golders Green events account for a sizeable proportion of the results. The Director of Home Chess’s own Golders Green events are incidentally incorrectly shown as not ECF rated on the ECF tournament calendar. The Charliechess events look to be rated using a WSCO formula.

Although you say no one has complained or commented, at the last two events some players, who travelled large distances, were surprised/disappointed to learn that the tournament was played under blitz rules and probably not rated. I think it would be better for you to state on the entry form that blitz rules apply and the games are not rated if that is the way you wish to continue. You may lose a few entries but you may gain a few from blitz seekers, who want a day out with a longer time limit as you have all the other attributes such as parking, free buffet and easy motorway access covered.

I am busy (not that busy) revising the 'ECF advice for events played under it's auspices' and this is definitely an area I will cover.

Privately, when I go to a chess event I assume it will be graded unless explicitly stated to be otherwise. Most events that get graded are part of the Grand Prix. I would probably be a little upset to find out otherwise having travelled to play, especially if I did well!

I learned a lot from Steve Boniface. However, I would not support mixing Blitz rules with Rapidplay rules at graded events (though I accept if the intention was never to grade the event the rules may be less formally applied) - it's better to get some assistant arbiters to walk round the room and deal with queries than to ignore the basic differences between the two sets of rules for expediency.

I think that anyone who holds an event that departs from these basic guidelines needs to make it clear on their entry forms, and would not be part of the Grand Prix. I also think it would be hard to have the games graded.

Golders Green is certainly graded (by Howard Grist, very efficiently), and that is one reason a lot of people play there regularly.