British Chess Championships 2010

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Alex Holowczak
Posts: 8794
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:51 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:In my opinion, if you have an arbiter, he or she should be trusted to make both objective and subjective decisions. There is usually more than one arbiter running a section anyway, so if the (however many arbiters there are) make a decision, then that should be the end of the matter.
So you would not allow an appeal against clearly incorrect arbiter decisions, such as these that actually occurred:
1. Player offers a draw while it is his opponent's move, and the arbiter rules that it cannot be accepted.
2. Arbiter sees that White's flag has fallen while White is thinking about his 41st move, and rules that White has lost on time.
3. Player claims a draw by repetition when the position has only been repeated twice and the arbiter accepts the claim.
If a direct appeal to the arbiter didn't solve the problem, then I'd write a letter to the Chief Arbiter of the ECF, because there are bigger issues at hand than the decision made in my game of chess!

Also, 2. is perfectly fine if the time control is 42 moves in 105 minutes. :wink:

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 17995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:53 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:The problem with Appeals Committees is that they take time to form (I bet in Canterbury they weren't all huddled around in an Office waiting for something to happen), and then take time to make decisions. At the end of the day, the subjective decision they come to is often no more right or wrong than a subjective decision that someone else (e.g. the arbiter) can take.
The playing rules in Canterbury were interpreted in an unexpected way. If I had been asked before round 10, what would happen if a player in contention for the tournament lead turned up more than half an hour after the start of play, I would have expected there to be a forfeit. The arbiter's discretion clause applying only if the opponent was willing either to start late or play with more than half an hour's clock advantage. I would have expected that "acts of cash point machines" would be a reason to allow late arrival but only if the opponent was in a "sporting" mood and agreed to play.

Following the decision of the Appeal committee, I'm now completely confused as to what I would expect to happen at say the London Chess Classic, the Hastings Masters or the British in Sheffield if
(a) I was the player waiting more than half an hour for an opponent or
(b) I expected to be more than half an hour late.
In the first round, I might expect a re-pairing but after that?

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Ian Thompson » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:54 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:In my opinion, if you have an arbiter, he or she should be trusted to make both objective and subjective decisions. There is usually more than one arbiter running a section anyway, so if the (however many arbiters there are) make a decision, then that should be the end of the matter.
So you would not allow an appeal against clearly incorrect arbiter decisions, such as these that actually occurred:
1. Player offers a draw while it is his opponent's move, and the arbiter rules that it cannot be accepted.
2. Arbiter sees that White's flag has fallen while White is thinking about his 41st move, and rules that White has lost on time.
3. Player claims a draw by repetition when the position has only been repeated twice and the arbiter accepts the claim.
Does it need a whole appeal committee to address these issues?
It needs a mechanism for lodging an appeal, which Alex appears to think unnecessary.

Matthew Turner
Posts: 2694
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:58 pm

Roger,
In (a) As soon as 30 minutes has expired you should hand in the result and down a pint to celebrate. Then you cannot be asked to play.
In (b) You should phone the organisers and if you are forfeited claim half a point citing precedent.

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:20 pm

Neither Geurt nor I would be without an Appeal Committee and we both resisted it being done away with for 10.2.
In my case this is because it helps avoid the possibility of my making dreadful decisions.
I know of two occasions when Appeal Committees have made absurd decisions, overturning the perfectly sensible ruling of the arbiter. Neither of these was in Britain.
Stewart Reuben

John Philpott

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by John Philpott » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:48 am

John Philpott wrote
It was good to have the question of the Alexander Best Game Prize resolved. Is there any chance of the website at http://www.britishchess2010.com/gotd.htm being updated so that it indicates who won the game of the day prizes after round 7?
The webmaster has reacted with commendable promptness by adding the winners for rounds 8, 9 and 10. Andrew - who did you choose for round 11? It can sometimes be too easy to find fault. I am sure that I speak for most users of this Forum when I state that whatever minor concerns may have been expressed, the British Championships website was first rate.

andrew martin

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by andrew martin » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:52 am

Greetings to all from the ChessBase offices in Hamburg!

Game of the Day from Rd 11 was the exciting draw between Wells and Adams

User avatar
Paul Littlewood
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Paul Littlewood » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:03 am

andrew martin wrote:Greetings to all from the ChessBase offices in Hamburg!

Game of the Day from Rd 11 was the exciting draw between Wells and Adams
Hi Andrew..I hope you are having a great time in Hamburg !

Meanwhile I was slightly disappointed you didn't consider my last round game for the award.

This was notable for several reasons :

1/ I played the Najdorf Sicilian for the first time for at least 30 years.
2/ I knew more theory than my young opponent James Jackson.
3/ I beat an opponent at least 30 years younger than me who is now the reigning U21 Champion.
4/ My play was virtually flawless.

All this is pretty tough to do for an ageing IM ! :wink:

Do I get a consolation prize ? :)

IanDavis
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by IanDavis » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:34 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Neither Geurt nor I would be without an Appeal Committee and we both resisted it being done away with for 10.2.
In my case this is because it helps avoid the possibility of my making dreadful decisions.
I know of two occasions when Appeal Committees have made absurd decisions, overturning the perfectly sensible ruling of the arbiter. Neither of these was in Britain.
Stewart Reuben
I remember a junior tournament I played at where the controller misbehaved. He was of course doubling as arbiter, as was the case at those events. I had a rather bad position that I was struggling to hold, but one rather obvious move would make it crumbling. It was no comfort to hear the controller whispering this, at rather loud volume, from the other side of the room.

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:38 pm

Ian Davis Of course the example you give has nothing to do with Appeals. But if you want an even better example of the arbiter interfering...
I was the chief Organising and Arbiter at one Lloyds Bank Masters. Spassky was adjourned against Nick de Firmian. Nick was analysing the position during adjournment in the hall with other Americans. I wandered by and said, 'What about playing...?' They looked at me and said, 'That's absurd.' 'Just look a little deeper.' They then considered it and this tactical idea became the basis of Nick's defence. It is just as well Boris won anyway.

Stewart Reuben

Jonathan Bryant
Posts: 3136
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:35 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Ian Davis Of course the example you give has nothing to do with Appeals. But if you want an even better example of the arbiter interfering...
I was the chief Organising and Arbiter at one Lloyds Bank Masters. Spassky was adjourned against Nick de Firmian. Nick was analysing the position during adjournment in the hall with other Americans. I wandered by and said, 'What about playing...?' They looked at me and said, 'That's absurd.' 'Just look a little deeper.' They then considered it and this tactical idea became the basis of Nick's defence. It is just as well Boris won anyway.

Stewart Reuben
Not bad ... but I've got an even better one.


20 years ago or more I was playing in a tournament. My mate's dad was playing a junior in one particular round and having a lot of trouble. The young fella was never at the board. Mate's dad would play a move and then the opponent would turn up, play a move without much thought and then disappear again.

One time Mate's Dad moved but the kid didn't show ... so MD went off to look for him. He was found in the analysis room: The position of the game was on a board (the move just made already on it).

The board was surrounded by the kid, a bunch of his munchkin mates and ... the arbiter of the tournament

andrew martin

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by andrew martin » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:25 am

Paul,

Your last game was simply splendid, rolling back the years. A remarkable effort,considering your age. It's just that as a fellow Wood Green player, I would certainly have been accused of favouritism, corruption and conspiratorial behaviour by several other members of the forum and I just couldn't face the thought.

User avatar
Christopher Kreuzer
Posts: 7252
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:34 am
Location: London

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:14 pm

Any contenders for best ever game played at any British Championship ever? Maybe something like that could be done for the upcoming 100th congress?

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:00 pm

CK that is nice idea. But I doubt one game would do the event justice and we have two more years before the 100th. Are you volunteering to undertake this task or how about JOHN SAUNDERS who is great? There could be a poll. Battles of Hastings was a similar accont.
Stewart Reuben

Jonathan Rogers
Posts: 3818
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Re: British Chess Championships 2010

Post by Jonathan Rogers » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:19 pm

ALL of Rowson's last four games in 2006 should be recorded in any such collection (v Williams, Haslinger, Gormally and Parker). I don't know what took him - he could not complain at having had 4.5/7 at that stage - but in those last games he was irresistible.

Random other memories, just over the last 25 years -

Chandler v Speelman (0-1) in Edinburgh 1985
Williams v Ledger, 2004 (1-0)
Gormally v Emms 1999 (1-0)
Gormally v Speelman 1999 (I think, but maybe 2000) 0-1
Speelman v Koneru (as above) 1-0
Hodgson v J Howell 1991 (1-0)
Haslinger v Lane 2002 (1-0)
Gallagher v Conquest (last round in 1987 AND 1988. 0-1 )
Miles v Short 1998 (1-0 and his shortest win of the event!)
Arkell v Jones (1-0, 2008; not just as part of the campaign to publish wins by Keith)
Howell v Palliser 2009 (1-0)

I guess this is one of those fun occasions when someone else might suggest a list of similar length, and there would still not be a game in common!

Post Reply