You can't do that, it's not your turn yet!! or can you??

[PaulJackson]

Imagine you're playing a standard long-play game of chess and the game is graded.
You have an opponent who responds to some of your moves lightning-fast.
It's your turn, you touch your piece, you move it then any of the following happen:

a) your opponent touches his piece before you let go of yours (& before you press your clock)

b) your opponent moves his piece & lets go before you let go of yours (& before you press your clock)

c) you let go of your piece and your opponent touches his piece before you press your clock

d) you let go of your piece and your opponent moves his piece & lets go before you press your clock

Are they allowed to do any of these?
If they're not allowed what would you do if it happened to you?
Does the touch-move rule apply to your opponent's response for any of the scenarios?

I've heard lots of conflicting opinions on this and I would be very grateful if somebody knows the answer.

[Roger de Coverly]

We had a discussion a while back which concluded that for a player really short of time, the sequence move, move, clock, clock was just about acceptable. In other words you play a move, your opponent replies, you press your clock, he presses his clock.

As regards (a) or (b) or even (c) or (d) with a player not short of time, I would deliberately move a piece not to a square I intended, and replace it on its original square. I would then let the opponent stew for a couple of minutes possibly with a request not to play his move until I had finished mine. As to whether touch move applies, I would suppose that arbiters may differ. It's behaviour which is annoying and distracting when not excused by severe time pressure.

[Ian Thompson]

a) your opponent touches his piece before you let go of yours (& before you press your clock)

Illegal. I don't see how touch move could apply to your opponent when he doesn't yet know what your move is. Your opponent could be penalised under Rule 12.6 for distracting you.

b) your opponent moves his piece and he lets go of it before you let go of yours (& before you press your clock)

Illegal. I don't see how touch move could apply to your opponent when he doesn't yet know what your move is. Your opponent could be penalised under Rule 12.6 for distracting you.

c) you let go of your piece and your opponent touches his piece before you press your clock

Legal. Your opponent must move the piece he's touched (assuming it has a legal move).

d) you let go of your piece and your opponent moves his piece before you press your clock

Legal. Your opponent has played a move and cannot retract it.

[E Michael White]

Many UK arbiters and players are confused about this one. As regards Paul’s original question:

a) and b) are not allowed. A player cannot touch the pieces while it his opponents move. It remains a players move until he lets go of his piece having played a legal move. This also applies to j’adoubes; a player may not j’adoube a piece while it is his opponents move unless his oppo agrees and his own clock is restarted.

c) and d) are allowed and each player may press the clock once for each move, which may result in the sequence move - move - clock - clock .

Geurt Gijssen's, who is the chairman for the committee within FIDE that deals with FIDE rules, posted the following on a website:

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/geurt139.pdf

In his reply to this question, he stated that the situation was reviewed at Dresden in 2008 and they decided not to alter the rule to prevent a player beginning his move before the opponent has pressed his clock.

The ECF and arbiters association should really try to get to grips with this one and ensure arbiters sing from the correct song sheet.

What is the correct action to take if an arbiter wrongly warns a player under these circumstances ?

[Joey Stewart]

Another thing some people try and do is what I call 'clock blocking' - whereby they make a move, you punt out a quick reply but then they try and hold their finger down on the clock to stop you pressing it. I am sure most people have experienced such a thing when in a time scramble.

[Alex Holowczak]

Never mind -

What is the correct action to take if an arbiter wrongly warns a player under these circumstances ?

My question - what is the penalty if a player does a or b?

[IM Jack Rudd]

My question - what is the penalty if a player does a or b?

Unspecified, and therefore at the arbiter's discretion.

[E Michael White]

a) and b) count as improper clock handling and so the rules specify that the arbiter has to give at least a warning.

[Ian Thompson]

A player cannot touch the pieces while it his opponents move. ... This also applies to j’adoubes; a player may not j’adoube a piece while it is his opponents move unless his oppo agrees and his own clock is restarted.

Where does it say any of this in the rules? Either of these actions could be a breach of Rule 12.6, but I see nothing more specific than this.

a) and b) count as improper clock handling and so the rules specify that the arbiter has to give at least a warning.

I don't see how touching or moving pieces while its your opponent's move can be construed as misuse of the clock.

[John Upham]

Another thing some people try and do is what I call 'clock blocking' - whereby they make a move, you punt out a quick reply but then they try and hold their finger down on the clock to stop you pressing it. I am sure most people have experienced such a thing when in a time scramble.

Hopefully this behaviour is made more difficult by the use of a decent clock such as DGT 2010 or XL.

If you are unlucky enough to use an old BHB or Garde item then button holding is much easier and more likely.

[Alex Holowczak]

I must confess that in blitz chess I often do the move move clock clock sequence. Often they don't press the clock at all. Must they press the clock, or can they then make another move and press the clock as though the clock had been pressed twice?

[Eoin Devane]

I must confess that in blitz chess I often do the move move clock clock sequence. Often they don't press the clock at all. Must they press the clock, or can they then make another move and press the clock as though the clock had been pressed twice?

I'm not sure what the rules say, but it would cause a problem if the clock's move counter were being used (unlikely in blitz, admittedly).

I don't seem to have quite the "speed of hand" of some others, so this often seems to happen to me. I do find it slightly frustrating, but I guess it can't be helped!

[Richard Thursby]

Another thing some people try and do is what I call 'clock blocking' - whereby they make a move, you punt out a quick reply but then they try and hold their finger down on the clock to stop you pressing it. I am sure most people have experienced such a thing when in a time scramble.

That's an infringement under Law 6.7a (player must be allowed to stop their clock). Also, unless they also want to break Law 6.7b (using the same hand to stop the clock as made the move and not keeping the finger on or near the button), they will need to take the hand off the clock to make their next move. If you're feelng really vindictive then you could clock block them yourself in reply.

Hopefully this behaviour is made more difficult by the use of a decent clock such as DGT 2010 or XL.

This is probably naive, but the only way that I can see how a digital clock might make clock blocking more difficult is that you can press the start/stop button if necessary.

[E Michael White]

Where does it say any of this in the rules? Either of these actions could be a breach of Rule 12.6, but I see nothing more specific than this.

4.2. specifies you may only j’adoube when you have the move. If you adjust the pieces at other times it counts as replacement of displaced pieces and is covered by 7.3.

The rules and/or clock status determine what actions you may(/may not) take. If you take inappropriate action as determined by the rules and/or clock status it counts as clock abuse as you will normally be taking some of your oppos time.

There are also FIDE commission rule findings, which form part of the rules until revoked but they are not all included in the printed rules.

[Eoin Devane]

There are also FIDE commission rule findings, which form part of the rules until revoked but they are not all included in the printed rules.

How are players supposed to know to abide by these if the rules aren't updated to incorporate them?