NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

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Ian Thompson
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:56 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
David Pardoe wrote:Very simple...you can see the flag fall.
Otherwise, when you reach the time control, play stops..the clocks are reset, and play continues..you thus know precisely where you`re at...and how much actual time you have.
Which is exactly the same as it a digital clock. Instead of seeing the flag fall, the display reaches 0:00.
Not "Instead of ..."; its "As well as ...". All digital clocks have some visible indication that the time has expired so you know which player ran out of time first if both clocks are showing 0:00. Some will also make an audible indication that the time has expired if you want to switch that function on.

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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:00 pm

Not quite Alex.....
Once you reach time control using the old analogue, you reach the vital check point. At that moment you have a check to confirm you have reached the time control..AND made the necessary number of moves.....and you then wind back the clocks to add your time. Its a different and more transparent operation, that leaves the players in no doubt, at the actual point of completing the move requirements.
If at that point you have got your moves wrong..or mis recorded, you have a specific check to confirm things.
Otherwise you can be left simply hoping you have not mis-recorded, with the time control arriving and you under a mis apprehension that you have actually completed the necessary moves...or alternatively rushing to play extra moves to ensure you`re ok.

But I understand that, with the new DGT 2010 clocks, there is an indicator that actually signals when you have completed the necessary number of moves. I hope thats right, otherwise you`re left playing a kind of blind poker game with the clock, if you`ve made any errors in recording your moves. I very frequently have time scrambles to reach time control.
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:13 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Not quite Alex.....
Once you reach time control using the old analogue, you reach the vital check point. At that moment you have a check to confirm you have reached the time control..AND made the necessary number of moves.....and you then wind back the clocks to add your time. Its a different and more transparent operation, that leaves the players in no doubt, at the actual point of completing the move requirements.
If at that point you have got your moves wrong..or mis recorded, you have a specific check to confirm things.
Otherwise you can be left simply hoping you have not mis-recorded, with the time control arriving and you under a mis apprehension that you have actually completed the necessary moves...or alternatively rushing to play extra moves to ensure you`re ok.
With a digital clock, when you check and confirm you reach the time control, a clock reaches 0:00. So you look at your scoresheet. If you've made the correct number of moves, sorted. You have the specific check you wanted. Now, instead of winding the clock back, you don't actually have to do anything. The advantage of doing this is that the digital clock adds the quickplay finish time accurately, to the nearest second. You can't ever wind an analogue clock back to the exact amount of time. It's just impossible to judge.

Familiarity breeds contempt. After a couple of games with digital clocks, you won't have a problem with them at all. It may take a bit of getting used to, but it's not difficult.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:33 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:
With a digital clock, when you check and confirm you reach the time control, a clock reaches 0:00.
The point is that for those of us who play the first part of three hour sessions quickly ( because we like to grind people down in endings), that the number of moves representing the first time control might have been met by both players half an hour earlier . So if you reckon a 3 hour game is going to reach move 60, you play at a pace of 30 moves in 60 minutes and then accelerate to 30 moves in 30 minutes. If your opponent has done the same, the additional fifteen minutes is going to be added on at about move 45 when neither player is yet in any sort of time pressure. You could just use a G/90 move rate instead but that runs into the opposite problem of players who would play 20 moves in 88 minutes. That's not a problem in the 4NCL because you would still have 32 minutes to get to move 40. In a evening league you could get a 10.2 claim at about move 30!

Sean Hewitt

Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:29 pm

David Pardoe wrote:Not quite Alex.....
Once you reach time control using the old analogue, you reach the vital check point. At that moment you have a check to confirm you have reached the time control..AND made the necessary number of moves.....and you then wind back the clocks to add your time.
Well, that certainly seems to be the custom in England (Britain?) but it's wrong according to the laws of chess - and it certainly confuses foreign players who are used to things being done correctly - ie time being added on when one flag has fallen, even with an analogue clock.

David Pardoe wrote:If at that point you have got your moves wrong..or mis recorded, you have a specific check to confirm things. Otherwise you can be left simply hoping you have not mis-recorded, with the time control arriving and you under a mis apprehension that you have actually completed the necessary moves...or alternatively rushing to play extra moves to ensure you`re ok.
How so? If neither you nor your opponent is scoring because you are in the last 5 minutes, how do you know how many moves you've made and when to add the time??
David Pardoe wrote:But I understand that, with the new DGT 2010 clocks, there is an indicator that actually signals when you have completed the necessary number of moves. I hope thats right, otherwise you`re left playing a kind of blind poker game with the clock, if you`ve made any errors in recording your moves. I very frequently have time scrambles to reach time control.
I don't understand this. Analogue clocks don't have a move counter, so surely you are no better but no worse with a digital clock. I'm not aware of any indicator on the DGT2010 that signals when you have completed the requisite number of moves, and I own one or two myself :D . There is a move counter on the DGT2010nbut it's not displayed, and it would be illegal for a player to use it to find out how many moves had been made during a game.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:12 pm

We seem to have wandered off thread by a long way here, what relevance is any of this to the NCCU minutes can I ask?
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:17 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:We seem to have wandered off thread by a long way here, what relevance is any of this to the NCCU minutes can I ask?
I can't remember, but we got here somehow via related discussions. :?

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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:51 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:We seem to have wandered off thread by a long way here, what relevance is any of this to the NCCU minutes can I ask?
If you fancy filtering all the different topics off into separate discussions, go ahead and good luck!

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:25 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Carl Hibbard wrote:We seem to have wandered off thread by a long way here, what relevance is any of this to the NCCU minutes can I ask?
If you fancy filtering all the different topics off into separate discussions, go ahead and good luck!
No, life is too short - but starting some new topics would be welcomed :)
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:51 pm

The thread has drifted across some interesting topics...the latest drift probably because of the injection from the recent MCCU AGM, and possibly the MCF AGM. So we`re definately on AGMs. Comments that all these Unions are a useless waste of time just add that extra zest to the discussions....

As to Seans & Alexs comments regarding clocks...definately clutching at straws, but nontheless some useful insights on matters that I think are both `current` & relevant.
Any breakup would wreck the continuity.... even the humour.....
Meanwhile, some points raised earlier probably do merit further comment & actions.
Regarding MCF joining the NCCU...definately worthy of some serious debate. We need a worth while deal before any moves can be initiated, I believe. Otherwise, the MCCU continues to serve us well enough....in spite of some rumblings at times...as you get anywhere. Out of the frying pan and into the stew...need to get things right.

And the 4NCL Northern League that Mike Truran is looking to drum up more support...need to keep focused on that, or he`ll be calling for penalties. From the sounds of things, it seems that progress is being made. Club, League and county organisors up north need to get motoring and put teams together before the holidays get into full swing. Maybe some planning will happen at the British... or hopefully at the recent Middlesbrough Congress some players put there heads together. Hopefully that event proved popular on the Northern circuit.
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Alex Holowczak » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:19 pm

David Pardoe wrote: As to Seans & Alexs comments regarding clocks...definately clutching at straws,
Eh? Which straws are we clutching at?

Sean Hewitt

Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Sean Hewitt » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:26 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: Eh? Which straws are we clutching at?
I though DP was referring to himself!

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:01 pm

Let's PLEASE close this one off and move onto pastures new - or at least more specific topics :roll:
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Re: NCCU AGM Minutes 2010

Post by David Pardoe » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:08 am

Agreed Carl. Many interesting points raised on this thread and hopefully those interested will reflect on how best to take things forward.
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