Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Discuss anything you like about chess related matters in this forum.
Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:07 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote: The meaning of "start of the session" is less clear. Stewart's explanation is one reasonable interpretation, but not without its drawbacks. A player could be seated at the board at the scheduled start time and then leave the board before the game has actually started. If he came back after it had actually started he would have lost, which is hardly fair when its the organisers who failed to start the game on time.
Can "Start of the session" be interpreted as the "scheduled start time"? I.e. the session starts when the entry form said it was supposed to?
That's another reasonable interpretation, but what would you do with Rule 12 requirements if the session is deemed to have started, but the game hasn't actually started? That could be problematic if, for example, a mobile phone rang in this period - loss or not? Is a player allowed to seek advice from others in this period or not?
Well, common sense could be used accordingly. I always make sure events I'm controlling at start smack on the start time regardless! Cross that bridge when we come to it; i.e. if someone complains. :D
Ian Thompson wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:I know that if my opponent is not present at the board at the scheduled start time, and the arbiter is having a bit of a ramble about whatever he chooses to ramble about, I just start the clock. If questioned, I say that the scheduled start time has passed.
Would you do that if your opponent was present? I hope not, because your opponent may be disturbed by the arbiter's announcements, in which case you shouldn't do it when he's not present.
If he's sat there, no I wouldn't, I'd wait until the arbiter says to start. Nor would I do it in Round One if they're still setting up equipment... I gain no advantage if he's sat there. If he's late, then that's his fault. If he's arrived at the board, in fact, and just gone to the loo or something, then I'd wait for him.
Alexander Hardwick wrote:Usually they don't. I recognise that Mr Holowczak may not be so obliging...
When you're in a race against time to make public transport connections, I'm not waiting for someone who's late if it means I have to wait an extra hour for a train.

Richard Bates
Posts: 3134
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Richard Bates » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:26 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:I know that if my opponent is not present at the board at the scheduled start time, and the arbiter is having a bit of a ramble about whatever he chooses to ramble about, I just start the clock. If questioned, I say that the scheduled start time has passed.
I often let the arbiter start the clock, especially when white. Gives a bit of extra thinking time.

Which creates an extra distinction - official start time, start time as announced by arbiter, time that clock is started.

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4217
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:41 am

I am hoping the following will happen. A player is not present at the board when the session is started. He is duly forfeited. Then he turns up and says, 'But I was present at the board yesterday and thus did arrive at the chessboard before the start of the session. Indeed look and you will see I wrote down the names of the players, the round, board number and so on.' The arbiter rejects his reasoning. Now he appeals. And then...
Sadly that is probably a fantasy. But be clear, the change from scheduled start to actual start was I suspect entirely deliberate. It was to reduce the impact of Kirsan's fixation. Makro was against the zero default time rule.

Stewart Reuben

Ian Thompson
Posts: 2625
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:18 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:I am hoping the following will happen. A player is not present at the board when the session is started. He is duly forfeited. Then he turns up and says, 'But I was present at the board yesterday and thus did arrive at the chessboard before the start of the session. Indeed look and you will see I wrote down the names of the players, the round, board number and so on.' The arbiter rejects his reasoning. Now he appeals. And then...
This scenario had occurred to me as well, and I thought the player would have no chance of success. If he turned up 5 minutes early, filled in his scoresheet and left the board, but stayed within the playing venue, then I think he has a good case. The problem though, is where do you draw the line if 5 minutes is OK and the day before isn't.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 4130
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:57 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:I know that if my opponent is not present at the board at the scheduled start time, and the arbiter is having a bit of a ramble about whatever he chooses to ramble about, I just start the clock. If questioned, I say that the scheduled start time has passed.
You have to treat the arbiter with more respect than that. At tournaments which I control, I expect the players to start the clocks when I invite them to do so, not before. I usually start thirty seconds to a minute late, just to make sure that I can't be accused of having started early.

Don't forget that games can overrun for a variety of perfectly legitimate reasons. For instance, there may need to be a reconstruction after the first time control, necessitating a delay before the quickplay finish phase can begin.

If it's essential for you that a game finishes at the scheduled time rather than a few minutes later, you should inform the arbiter beforehand. You'll find that arbiters are usually sympathetic - provided that in general you work with them rather than against them.

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:14 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:I know that if my opponent is not present at the board at the scheduled start time, and the arbiter is having a bit of a ramble about whatever he chooses to ramble about, I just start the clock. If questioned, I say that the scheduled start time has passed.
You have to treat the arbiter with more respect than that. At tournaments which I control, I expect the players to start the clocks when I invite them to do so, not before. I usually start thirty seconds to a minute late, just to make sure that I can't be accused of having started early.

Don't forget that games can overrun for a variety of perfectly legitimate reasons. For instance, there may need to be a reconstruction after the first time control, necessitating a delay before the quickplay finish phase can begin.

If it's essential for you that a game finishes at the scheduled time rather than a few minutes later, you should inform the arbiter beforehand. You'll find that arbiters are usually sympathetic - provided that in general you work with them rather than against them.
I always inform the arbiters of any impending future public transport doom. Indeed, I often chase them up with three minutes to go before the start, to make sure they start on time! I tend not to threaten the time control, so there's unlikely to be a game that I play where reconstruction is required.

As a sort-of trainee arbiter, I'm very sympathetic to the cause of arbiters, and am well aware that players can be a pain.

Kevin Thurlow
Posts: 4091
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:28 pm

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:30 am

"I'm very sympathetic to the cause of arbiters, and am well aware that players can be a pain."

Arbiting would be a lot easier without the players...
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

User avatar
Wilf Arnold
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 9:36 pm
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Wilf Arnold » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:18 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"I'm very sympathetic to the cause of arbiters, and am well aware that players can be a pain."

Arbiting would be a lot easier without the players...
..and easier still without some parents!

Although I do appreciate the sacrifices they make in getting their children to tournaments.

Neil Graham
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Neil Graham » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:28 pm

Carol Williams wrote:I saw today in my local fancy dress shop a dalmation suit complete with bone, can I wear this when playing in a tournament or is this not considered approriate dress :lol: :lol:
I can remember (just about) playing in the British Under 18 Championship at Bristol in 1968 and a couple of players turning up in fancy dress every day. Notably one day they appeared in Arab regalia and the next day as wizards complete with flowing robes and pointed hats! The names Chris Haynes and George Leyton of Drunken Knights seems to ring a bell for the two players concerned - they also insisted on opening all their White games by playing 1 Nh3 (possibly they played this as Black as well?).

Perhaps someone on the forum can confirm I've not made this one up?

Paul McKeown
Posts: 3463
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Hayes (Middx)
Contact:

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Paul McKeown » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:56 pm

Neil Graham wrote:The names Chris Haynes and George Leyton of Drunken Knights seems to ring a bell for the two players concerned - they also insisted on opening all their White games by playing 1 Nh3 (possibly they played this as Black as well?).
George now opens his game with a half gallon of ale, as anyone who has ever played away to the Drunken Knights can attest.

User avatar
Matt Mackenzie
Posts: 3507
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 pm
Location: Millom, Cumbria

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:11 pm

Neil, I vaguely recall David leMoir mentioning something like that in one of his books :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4217
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:11 pm

Neil Graham >opening all their White games by playing 1 Nh3 (possibly they played this as Black as well?).<
I do hope the arbiter stopped the clock, put the black Knight on h3 back to g8; told Black he must move the knight legally and restarted the clock.

Stewart Reuben

Neil Graham
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Neil Graham » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:23 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:Neil Graham >opening all their White games by playing 1 Nh3 (possibly they played this as Black as well?).<
I do hope the arbiter stopped the clock, put the black Knight on h3 back to g8; told Black he must move the knight legally and restarted the clock.

Stewart Reuben
Errrrrrrrrrrr :oops: Possibly as Black they played either Na6 or Nh6 depending if White had opened d4 or e4?

User avatar
Charles W. Wood
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:50 pm
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Charles W. Wood » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:48 am

Wilf Arnold wrote:
Kevin Thurlow wrote:"I'm very sympathetic to the cause of arbiters, and am well aware that players can be a pain."

Arbiting would be a lot easier without the players...
..and easier still without some parents!

Although I do appreciate the sacrifices they make in getting their children to tournaments.
We have a simple rule about this. As we use the Latvian Club's big ballroom and we have a chess room downstairs, so we ban all parents while games are being played. Coaching staff is allowed under clear rules and a CRB and they have to sign our Child Protection Policy (after reading it, obviously). This works really well for us.

I do remember running a tournament with Nick Nixon in Churwell and a parent was trying to communicate to his son that he should move the Knight, after 5 mins or so the junior turned around and said "shut up dad your rubbish at chess". Which seamed to solve the situation perfectly. LOL
Charles W. Wood
Captain of Legion

Simon Bibby
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Writing down your move......with a giant pencil

Post by Simon Bibby » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:54 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
harrylamb wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:For some reason this incident reminds me of a famous dispute at Hastings about fifteen years ago, when a player insisted that he couldn't play without having a large mascot next to the board. His opponent objected that the mascot was extremely off-putting, a view upheld by the arbiter.
I remember it well. I was on the appeals committee. It was one of the more amusing disputes I have had in my career. The appeals committee upheld the arbiters decision and awarded the game to the mascot-less player. This naturally lead to a follow up dispute. Neither player had actually played a move. The mascot player claimed he should lose by default because the game had not started. His opponent claimed a win on time because the mascot player had turned up at the board and thus the game had started. You may think disputing the method of victory is a bit pedantic, but the mascot-less player got the FIDE rating points if his opponent was deemed to have turned up. If the game was a default it would not be rated. The appeals committee decided that the match had started and should thus be rated. I always felt that while this decision was harsh it was nevertheless the correct one.
Hi Harry. Good to see you on the Forum.

I chaired the Appeal Committee. I can't remember who the third member was - can you?

My recollection is that it was only the question of whether the game should be scored 1-0 or +/- default that was the subject of the appeal. The player with the mascot didn't mind being defaulted, but he didn't like losing the rating points.

He started shouting at me when I told him the decision. I calmed him down by telling him that if he was unhappy he could ask his Federation to raise the matter with FIDE. I subsequently heard that he'd sought to do so, but that his Federation or FIDE ( I'm not sure which) had agreed with us.
'Twas me David. Most distressed not to be remembered. But thanks for the post-Appeals beer!
Big darned teddy it was too. Though, do remember his Dutch opponent had taken bets with his mates that he was gonna complain. Fair play to him.
Remember we asked to have it brought in, though whether as witness, culprit or evidence unclear to me, even at the time.

Re cultural expressions, a haka would certainly be interesting.
I made sure that our Japanese team expressed ourselves at the Calvia 2004 Olympiad prizegiving, where we got Category E gold (whoopydoo).
Led team yells of BANZAI!!!!! onstage (3x, arms outstretched in air in traditional fashion). Shocked Campomanes who dropped the medals, silly sod. Mind you, could have been old war memories coming back...

"BANZAI! BANZAI! BANZAIIIIIIII!"

Post Reply