NCCU and the MCF

[David Pardoe]

Paul,
Your version of events depends on which stories you`ve heard, or choose to believe.
The fact is that the MCF have been constructively exploring options on this for some considerable time.
Yes, some kind of negotiated agreement ought to be possible, based on what both/all parties deem acceptable.
As regards boundaries, Alan Walton explained quite clearly that Greater Manchester (as created in 1973), consists of 12 or 13 boroughs. It very simply boils down to which local council you pay council tax to, which defines whether you live in a Lancs borough, or a Manchester borough. Boundaries are clearly shown on local Greater Manchester maps, with the borders to several neighbouring counties clearly shown. I think some major roads show when you`re driving into neighbouring counties. However, as a Geordie, from Newcastle area/Tyne & Wear , I dont give a toss about this. My major concern is simply to play for the local side, whoever that might be. As Ive said before, ....as a GMan player/former captain, I regard fellow Lancs folk as good friends and comrades, whom we hold in high esteem. Many of these people, particularly the older generation, regard themselves as `Lancs`...and I can quite understand that. I am more than happy for any such players to play for GMan...and a number have done...and if they wish to wear `Lancs Forever` T-shirts, I am more than happy to support that. Similarly, if some players feel they must play for Lancs then so be it.
You must remember that we meet together week-in week-out, playing numerous league matches in the MCF league, in mostly sporting and good natured rivalry. Many players have known each other for many years.

As regards the MCCU...make no mistake, they have offered us good chess opportunities over many years, so nobody is busting to jump ship. Like many other chess issues, there are varying opinions about which we should belong to. Im almost tempted to say we should seek joint membership of both Unions...playing some teams in one, and other teams in the other, and joining in both sets of Union competitions/events. Such an option could well suit other bordering counties, such as Cheshire. Good inter-Union relations can only be in our best interests.

Yes, we have differences of opinion...and yes there are irritations...but generally the scene is one of lively exchanges on many levels. Mick would say its all about getting on with people....but I think you need to strike solid deals, that give objectively good benefits, that majority parties can agree to.

[Paul McKeown]

David,

My version of events is that there are two tribes determined to hate each other till ragnarok should dawn. It would be nice to think that chess players could put aside this sort of folly. Accommodation must come from both sides.

Regards,
Paul.

[David Pardoe]

Paul,
There certainly has to be some give & take on both sides...and yes, there are one or two extreme elements who hopefully will come on board for the common good.
The MCF had an excellent AGM last week, which was packed to the doors (nay, overflowing into the corridors...!!), from representatives of all our local clubs. Discussions were generally lively and good humoured. Mobiles, digital clocks, various rule changes, emails & communications and many other matters were discussed, along with the usual business...so my feeling is that we`re in quite good shape just now.

[Paul Buswell]

... however I still need an answer to my original question; I am unable to be specific on here at the moment but there is an ongoing situation that has resulted in differing opinions. It goes to the heart of this debate.

Question. Can a person who was born since 1985 in a town that was formerly part of Cheshire but now part of Greater Manchester qualify for one of the NCCU Championships? (Senior and Junior)

..........................

NCCU rules I know nothing of; for BCF decisions you need to find someone at the ECF office with time to read through the Minutes of BCF Council mid-1980s

PB

[Alan Walton]

I am one of those people to be born after the original split and maybe when younger been drilled to be against Lancashire in the chess world

Even though I consider myself as a Lancastrian, I want the best for chess for myself or whoever I play for (which includes Yorkshire who I currently play for).

The main reason these discussions are happening is that people in Manchester now 100% believe that the NCCU is the best for chess in general and it now up to the people in the NCCU to bring back Manchester into their fold and reap the gains from the players who they have been missing over the years no matter what form it takes

[David Pardoe]

Alan, There has been much manipulation/persuation/intimidation, etc... on all sides.
As a former county captain, I got to see this at first hand. Thats one reason that I say it should be about local players playing in local teams. If Lancs were to move there HQ to Preston (the true heartlands of Lancs), it could help ease tensions...and create some breathing space.
If we can get over this futile legal issue, then the road would be clear for todays generation to take things forward.

[JamesMurphy]

What a load of tripe. Nothing I have ever heard or read on this ridiculous subject has ever given me the slightest glimmer of a belief that there is intelligent life in Lancashire. Can anyone in the NCCU give any justification that thirty years after the grandparents were upset by the arrival of a bastard child, that that child should still be shunned by the rest of the family?

Morons.



Sorry if this comes across a bit heavy, but get an effing grip, someone, please.

There are plenty of people who've been calling for this whole sorry affair between Gtr Manchester and NCCU to be laid to rest None more so than members of the MCF/Gtr Manchester themselves. However, some NCCU members in particular Lancashire still have a reluctance to deal with the situation in a mature way especially when it comes to Greater Manchester splitting from the rest of Lancashire, when many many years ago it formed it's own chess playing county. Given the saturation of players it had it's own right to...!

Anyway for me it's like the Northern Ireland situation. Hopefully the older people who still bear the grudges will pass on or move away from places of power and maybe a new generation of people might come in and act a bit more civilised again. We can only live and hope!

[Simon Spivack]

... some NCCU members in particular Lancashire still have a reluctance to deal with the situation in a mature way

I am not convinced that calling one's electorate immature is best calculated to win a vote of admission.

This subject is emotive and, as has been hinted at by others, it would be better to prevent any further postings. Any negotiations should be done in private, in which eventuality a willingness to compromise is a desideratum. What good reason Mick Norris had for asking what he did in public is beyond me. He knows who the principals were. Some he could have contacted privately.

As I recall Jim Tennant-Smith is in his eighties. He is either unable, or unwilling, to respond in this thread. Given the tenor of some of the posts, I don't blame him at all.

[David Pardoe]

Mick`s open call for information and assistance is entirely reasonable, because of the time passage, and the need to consult anyone with useful information....
The private diplomancy route has been tried on a number of occasions and appears to have been stone walled.
Im just puzzled that a handful of individuals can hold sway over the whole chess scene in northern england?
Yes, people will naturally get irritated that these people can`t come out and speak more publically about the issues and concerns raised.

I`ve called for those who hold the keys to this legal position and (Veto...), which I certainly didnt know anything of.... to reconsider..waive this legal claim, and allow a free vote (discussions), by current active memberships as to how people feel things should proceed.

[Malcolm Peacock]

I've only lived in Lancashire (Preston) for 26 years, so I don't know about any of this. Would I get beaten up if I went along to the next Lancashire meeting and proposed that we let MCF join the NCCU?

[Paul McKeown]

I've only lived in Lancashire (Preston) for 26 years, so I don't know about any of this. Would I get beaten up if I went along to the next Lancashire meeting and proposed that we let MCF join the NCCU?

Given Martin Regan's statement above, one rather suspects that you might be vigorously opposed, although the rest of the country might cheer you on!

[David Pardoe]

I`ll second that...
Its probably important to appreciate what is going on here....
We`re not calling for some kind of ritual annexation of the Holly lands....we`re not going to build a new version of the Berlin Wall round Manchester...
Nothing could be further from the truth..... we do want to maintain positive, strong relations with neighbours on all levels. And it will always be accepted that our area has a strong Lancs connection and influence....to be regarded by many as the SEL Constituency, you might say.
The essence of this is that we are recognising that our region can support two chess entities/counties, (call them what you will), giving scope for more chess activity on all levels. And Merseyside makes up the trio of North West top shots...and there are others......!!
But the thing we must not do, regardless of what decisions are reached, is to continue this futile feuding.

[Mick Norris]

This subject is emotive and, as has been hinted at by others, it would be better to prevent any further postings. Any negotiations should be done in private, in which eventuality a willingness to compromise is a desideratum. What good reason Mick Norris had for asking what he did in public is beyond me. He knows who the principals were. Some he could have contacted privately.

Simon

What I asked for were facts not opinions, and I'm not responsible for the thread degenerating

I've spent years listening to people saying things, but never seen any evidence produced, even when it has been asked for

Perhaps this thread could now be closed

[Paul McKeown]

Every rational human being could tell you that a Manchester sports federation should belong to a northern English union; the best thing that could happen is for those dinosaurs who stand in its way being put out to pasture.

[Mick Norris]

Thank you to those who contributed positively to this

The MCF has concluded initial negotiations with the NCCU, and as a result has made a formal application to join the NCCU

I expect our application to be successful