NCCU and the MCF

[Sean Hewitt]

Thank you to those who contributed positively to this

The MCF has concluded initial negotiations with the NCCU, and as a result has made a formal application to join the NCCU

I expect our application to be successful

Hurrah

[David Blower]

Yes I was a bit surprised to say the least that Greater Manchester was part of the Midland Counties Chess Union, whilst researching possible opponents for Staffordshire.

[William Metcalfe]

Mick and myself have been in talks since i became NCCU president all we were intrested in doing is what we thaught was best for northern chess players.We both came to this process as new blood we were not handcuffed by what happened in the past.We both obv kept our constituants in the loop i told the NCCU what i was doing and Mick kept MCF updated.Neither of us met a lot of resistance in the early days so we kept the process going.
Now i am going to have a pop at some people on here and a certain blogger whom thaught i was not up to being NCCU president and whom also thaught i was stupid just because i am dyslexic.dyslexia has not bearing on intelligence or common sense ok rant over

[David Pardoe]

It certainly would be good to reach some amicable settlement over these matters.
What is of most importance, in my view, is not specifically joining the NCCU, but in establishing strong ties across the northern territories.
If you look at the geography..Manchester sits slap bang dead centre between the NCCU & the MCCU, so, from a counties perspective, our membership of the MCCU has been both beneficial and very positive, certainly from a counties perspective. ie, we have competed in the MCCU competitions for many years and enjoyed some good competition....and these MCCU events are quite well run.
I`m not quite sure just what benefits we hope to gain by joining the NCCU, and I suspect many MCF clubs/players are equally puzzled. Yes, it goes without saying that we are natural neighbours, and as such, should maintain close ties...but that can be achieved without the MCF actually joining the NCCU, I believe.

[Alan Walton]

If you look at the geography..Manchester sits slap bang dead centre between the NCCU & the MCCU

So why do all Manchester players have to drive through a county which plays in the NCCU to get to all MCCU counties (with a small exception of the few miles connecting with Derbyshire)

[Roger de Coverly]

So why do all Manchester players have to drive through a county which plays in the NCCU to get to all MCCU counties

For reasons that I still find difficult to understand, one Lancashire player took it upon himself, that if he couldn't prevent the formation of the Greater Manchester county, he could at least prevent it competing in the North of England competitions. Ironic really that the Open competition, which is presumably where eligibility can matter, has in the NCCU been reduced to a rump match between Yorks and Lancs.

Has this player finally waived his objections to Greater Manchester being part of the NCCU as they still seemed present quite recently?

There shouldn't be anything in principle against Greater Manchester being in the NCCU and still fielding a team or two in the MCCU. Cambridgeshire kept an Open team in the SCCU for several years following the formation of EACU.

[David Pardoe]

Many believe that Cheshire might be better placed in the MCCU anyway. It sits between 3 of the MCCU counties and several big Cheshire clubs play in the Staffordshire leagues.
As for the MCF...the 20 mile trip to Newcastle U Lyme to play our matches is not a bad trip by any means.
But we have played many matches against Leicestershire and Notts at places like Chesterfield, which is directly connected...for what its worth. There is also a healthy level of participation in the MCCU county events, with most counties entering at least one or more sections.
Yes, for you, I can see the attraction of hoping over the boundary to Bradford to play the odd county match.
County chess in the NCCU is a limited affair at present...with only two counties going head to head in most cases....the rest have long since given up bothering to enter, and sit on the sidelines.
Meeting these teams in the National stages would throw up some interesting matches, like last year, when our U160 team met Lancs in a cracking good battle, played in great spirit. Many players know each other well and share in the camaradery that these matches throw up.

[Alan Walton]

As for the MCF...the 20 mile trip to Newcastle U Lyme to play our matches is not a bad trip by any means.

David, if you are going to make statements like this it maybe worth while checking the facts first

From the city centre of Manchester it is 42.7 miles, the equivalent of Preston and Bradford

[Mick Norris]

Mick and myself have been in talks since i became NCCU president all we were intrested in doing is what we thaught was best for northern chess players.We both came to this process as new blood we were not handcuffed by what happened in the past.We both obv kept our constituants in the loop i told the NCCU what i was doing and Mick kept MCF updated.Neither of us met a lot of resistance in the early days so we kept the process going.
Now i am going to have a pop at some people on here and a certain blogger whom thaught i was not up to being NCCU president and whom also thaught i was stupid just because i am dyslexic.dyslexia has not bearing on intelligence or common sense ok rant over

To be clear to everyone here, William is the one who should take the credit for this agreement being reached

At the MCF AGM on 25th July 2007, at which Dave Pardoe was present, I proposed the following motion:
"Motion 5:
Consideration of motion proposed by Bury Chess Club:
That MCF Council discuss with the Northern Counties Chess Union the possibility of the entry of the MCF into that Union, and authorises it to negotiate such an entry should this be available under conditions acceptable to Council.
The motion was passed unanimously."

MCF Council voted last week (12 of us in favour, 1 against, 1 abstained)

The democratic majority in the MCF has spoken clearly

[Christopher Kreuzer]

It sounds like good news, but I'm curious as to why something like this should take 6 years (from 2007 to 2013)? Was that 6 years of continuous negotiation, or slow and sure progress? What is involved in switching from one union to another that might take so long? Was it mainly communicating with everyone and making sure most were OK with this?

[Mick Norris]

As for the MCF...the 20 mile trip to Newcastle U Lyme to play our matches is not a bad trip by any means.

David, if you are going to make statements like this it maybe worth while checking the facts first

From the city centre of Manchester it is 42.7 miles, the equivalent of Preston and Bradford

60 miles for those of us travelling from Bolton, further for at least 1 of our team, and the match was delayed because this year (as last) Warks lost the M6 gambit which defeated our team 2 years ago

[Mick Norris]

It sounds like good news, but I've curious as to why something like this should take 6 years (from 2007 to 2013)? Was that 6 years of continuous negotiation, or slow and sure progress?

My predecessor tried a different tack than the one I have taken

Although I liked William's predecessor, Rupert Jones, I didn't find him willing to do what was required

[Paul McKeown]

Common sense has finally prevailed, congratulations to William and Mick, well played!



Now, if only various other sore points in English chess, involving ancient grudges and personality clashes, could be resolved in a similar manner. Anyone able to help Surrey out? One can dream...

[William Metcalfe]

I only became president last year Christopher so there was really nobody for MCF to talk to in the NCCU.Thank you Mick but it takes two to tango so i am refusing to take all the credit.
Sorry Paul life is to short for me to help surrey out.To be a bit more serious we had 2 people in the right place at the right time.We both went into these talks with a open mind and were prepared to listen to each others points of view.

[Roger de Coverly]

Was it mainly communicating with everyone and making sure most were OK with this?

It's the opposition of certain Lancashire people to even the concept that Greater Manchester should be part of the NCCU. I don't really understand the reason for the deep seated opposition but it may originally have started with the rules of eligibility for county matches. From the point of view of the rest of the country, rules that in theory but not practice might have weakened the Lancs county open team were NOT a good reason for taking legal action against the rest of English chess players (aka the BCF).

The NCCU minutes document the continued opposition http://www.nccu.org.uk/nccu-mins/

For example http://www.nccu.org.uk/nccu/mins/docs/N ... 0611DC.doc

The MCF situation was briefly discussed with no further developments. The Secretary reminded the meeting of an NCCU decision a few years ago, that unless Lancashire were content with any proposals from the MCF, then the NCCU would not take it any further.

So it isn't or wasn't a question of securing a majority vote, but of overcoming a Lancashire veto.